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To: redgolum; maryz; Kolokotronis; stfassisi

I am sure he did. The other half of the Church teaching, however, says that man synergistically cooperates with God, like a patient with a doctor, if one is to be saved.

In other words, God does not force himself on anyone (i.e. forced love = no love). Grace, being love, is not irresistible. However, the Protestants claim otherwise.

Therefore, the Church teaches that the essential elements of salvation are Grace first, and free will second. God offers, man accepts; God leads, man follows—freely.

6,774 posted on 09/22/2010 9:03:14 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: MarkBsnr

meant to ping you too, sorry.


6,775 posted on 09/22/2010 9:05:30 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50; maryz; Kolokotronis; stfassisi
Therefore, the Church teaches that the essential elements of salvation are Grace first, and free will second. God offers, man accepts; God leads, man follows—freely.

Which pretty much sums up the traditional Lutheran teaching. We can not come to God by our own reason or strength, but we reject God and choose not to follow him.

You can't save yourself, but you can damn yourself.

6,788 posted on 09/23/2010 4:24:46 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: kosta50
Therefore, the Church teaches that the essential elements of salvation are Grace first, and free will second. God offers, man accepts; God leads, man follows—freely.

Yes. God knocks on the door to your heart; it is up to you to open it to Him. God would dwell in all men. But men can still reject Him.

1 Timothy 2: 1 1 First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, 2 for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. 3 This is good and pleasing to God our savior, 4 who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3: 9 The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard "delay," but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, 8 and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out. 11 9 Since everything is to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought (you) to be, conducting yourselves in holiness and devotion, 12 10 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved in flames and the elements melted by fire.

and of course:

John 3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave 7 his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn 8 the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

God wants all to be saved; not all will be saved...

6,807 posted on 09/23/2010 9:43:52 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Caholic Church did not move <me to do so.)
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