[HarleyD]

you misrepresent that to signify that Jesus was talking to the "non-elect" --> Jesus was talking to a bunch of Jews:

I haven't misrepresented anything. The scriptures talks in two terms about people; the righteous and the wicked. The children of light and those in darkness. Those who are slaves to righteousness and those who are slaves to sin. Those who are children of God and those who are children of the devil. Those who are chosen and those who are not. Those who hear the word of truth and those who are blinded.

It isn't the crowd that Jesus was talking to. Scripture repeatedly talks about two sets of people from cover to cover. In the OT, during Jesus' time, and in the later writings. Paul talks about how we were transformed from our wicked ways:

Eph 2:1-3 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

This fact wasn't lost on Augustine who wrote "The Two Cities".

I'll tell you why this message about us being wicked is so repugnant to some. We have totally lost our concept of how very wicked we are. Instead we think that we are so hotsy-totsy good and God will love us if we just accept Him. What utter nonsense and blasphemy. It's the old, "Jesus loves us and has a wonderful plan for our lives" syndrome. And don't take my word for it. This is based upon research that the average person believes they sin just 3 times a month.

Well, the true is that we cannot even stand to be in the radiant presence of perfection and love. And unless people understand how very wicked they are, it makes it more difficult for them to repent.

Now you will tell me "Hey, Harley, this doesn't sound very Calvinistic." God brings man to repentance ONLY when the church preaches the message of sin and the need for repentance. When believers fail to do their part with the word, God will NOT bless our actions. People NOT coming to Christ is not the fault of unbelievers not seeing the light. Rather it is a measurement of the failing of Christians.

[Cronos]

"I haven't misrepresented anything. The scriptures talks in two terms about people; the righteous and the wicked. The children of light and those in darkness. Those who are slaves to righteousness and those who are slaves to sin. Those who are children of God and those who are children of the devil. Those who are chosen and those who are not. Those who hear the word of truth and those who are blinded."

My error -- I mistook your point for Dr.E's. I apologize.

[Cronos]

I'll tell you why this message about us being wicked is so repugnant to some. We have totally lost our concept of how very wicked we are. Instead we think that we are so hotsy-totsy good and God will love us if we just accept Him. What utter nonsense and blasphemy. It's the old, "Jesus loves us and has a wonderful plan for our lives" syndrome. And don't take my word for it. This is based upon research that the average person believes they sin just 3 times a month.

Well, the true is that we cannot even stand to be in the radiant presence of perfection and love. And unless people understand how very wicked they are, it makes it more difficult for them to repent.

Good post. thanks

[D-fendr]

"Hey, Harley, this doesn't sound very Calvinistic."

Hey, Harley, it sounds positively Eastern Orthodox. :)