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To: Dr. Eckleburg; boatbums; Alex Murphy

That is a works-based damnation. The WMCF makes it clear that this is not what the reformed believe. One has to do nothing to be condemned.

That is a preposterous proposition by Charles H. Spurgeon in his sermon "Particular Redemption" of 28 Feb 1858. Talk about bending the evidence to fit the doctrine!

Nowewhere does the Greek word pas mean "some", but is translated in as – all, all things, every, all men, whosoever, everyone, whole, all manner of, every man, every thing, any, whatsoever, whosoever, always, any thing, etc.

And for a good reason and I have also told you why (human corruption in it, of which there is overhwleming evidence). And, yes, I do question the existence of God. Why not? I don't know what God is, so I condier all options.

Believers are all the same in the boldness of their belief, whether they claim or disclaim the divine. I simply don't know (isn't that what agnostic means?). There is a qualitative difference between the unbelief (atheism) and unknowledge  (agnosis).

How Christain of you! Why do you find agnosis unacceptable? Do you know everything? Should I drop any contact with you simply because you don't know something? Imagine if God took your attitude?

And, to use your line, when you find a human being who knows everything, let me know.

You mean to tlel me that you find "ruitful common ground" with Catholics or Orthodox? You could have fooled me. I don't recall many of your posts expressing fruitfulness and common ground with them.

5,835 posted on 09/17/2010 9:33:55 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: Judith Anne

ping


5,836 posted on 09/17/2010 9:37:12 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50
You mean to tlel me that you find "ruitful common ground" with Catholics or Orthodox?

You betcha. As I said, we have the common ground of the Scriptures and of the validity of their narration that a man, Jesus Christ, who was God, was born into this world, served this world, died by this world and rose from the dead into heaven.

I used to find that common ground with you, too. But as you've said, you've moved away from believing the Scriptures as authoritative and God-inspired to the point now where you doubt the existence of God.

As goofy as some of these FR Roman Catholics are, according to their own words not one of them doubts the existence of God.

If I were Greg Bahnsen or Van Til I could debate you with more sincerity. They were great debaters against agnostics and atheists. I simply have not learned the knack. I argue from Scripture. When that Scripture is dismissed as fiction, my only response is to reply "I hope you find again what you once thought you had because I still have it and it sustains me every day."

THE ‘WORLD’ OF JOHN 3:16 DOES NOT MEAN
‘ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION’

One last try. 8~)

5,841 posted on 09/17/2010 9:51:52 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; D-fendr
You mean to tlel me that you find "ruitful common ground" with Catholics or Orthodox? You could have fooled me. I don't recall many of your posts expressing fruitfulness and common ground with them.

Here's the problem (as I see it) in a nutshell. Within Catholicism, the definition of "outermost circle of Christianity" is the two-pronged "apostolic succession/papal submission" and "valid Eucharist" (transubstantiation). All other doctrinal issues, while not ignored, are secondary considerations. In this mindset, if you're a "real" Christian you must be Catholic. And if you're not Catholic, you're at best a member of an "ecclesial community" (Protestants), of a "defective church" (Orthodox), or not a Christian at all. Thus, the mindset of Catholicism towards the corporate exercise of Christianity is exclusivist by design. You're either (already) Catholic, or you're well outside the safety zone.

Now using that mindset, when Catholics look upon Protestant denominations, they believe that all denominations must similarly be fully exclusivist towards all other denominations. They think that Protestants exclude all denominations/members not their own from the full body of Christ, because that's how it Catholics themselves approach others. While some "Protestant" congregations and denominations (using those terms loosely) may act that way towards outsiders, the majority do not (and the creedal ones IMO less so).

I find it amusing that it was Calvinists and Presbyterians who came up with the "Five Fundamentals" (where the perjorative "fundamentalist" comes from) as an ecumenical tool to find common ground with Christians of all persuasions (including Catholics and Orthodox). I myself can find fruitful, common ground with any and all Trinitarian Christians (Trinitarianism being my personal "outermost circle" for defining Christianity. Sure, we might argue doctrine, we might argue about what are "doctrines of demons" or what is the "gospel of Satan", but those are inter-family squabbles as far as many of us are concerned. Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot reach across the aisle and say the same, IMO.

Related threads:
The word is evangelical, not fundamentalist
The many forms of fundamentalism
Put that cup of coffee down [re the proper use of the religious term "fundamentalist"]

5,860 posted on 09/17/2010 11:51:51 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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