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To: kosta50
You mean to tlel me that you find "ruitful common ground" with Catholics or Orthodox?

You betcha. As I said, we have the common ground of the Scriptures and of the validity of their narration that a man, Jesus Christ, who was God, was born into this world, served this world, died by this world and rose from the dead into heaven.

I used to find that common ground with you, too. But as you've said, you've moved away from believing the Scriptures as authoritative and God-inspired to the point now where you doubt the existence of God.

As goofy as some of these FR Roman Catholics are, according to their own words not one of them doubts the existence of God.

If I were Greg Bahnsen or Van Til I could debate you with more sincerity. They were great debaters against agnostics and atheists. I simply have not learned the knack. I argue from Scripture. When that Scripture is dismissed as fiction, my only response is to reply "I hope you find again what you once thought you had because I still have it and it sustains me every day."

THE ‘WORLD’ OF JOHN 3:16 DOES NOT MEAN
‘ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION’

One last try. 8~)

5,841 posted on 09/17/2010 9:51:52 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Judith Anne; Alex Murphy; D-fendr
One last try. 8~)

There is no doubt that some passages in the Bible cannot be taken literally, such as where we encounter statements like "And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?" [Mat 12:23] Clearly, in context, the Greek pas mean all present, not all the people of the world. At other times, verses like "And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?" [Mat 21:10] it is clearly a figure of speech that cannot be taken literally because we know from context, again, that not everyone in Jerusalem was necessarily moved.

Then statements such as "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." [Mat 21:22] become a bit more difficult. Some would say "all" in this case means all things agreeable to God, all things God wills, etc. not anything one may ask. But we don't know, do we, what the scribe in this case meant without reading his mind. After all, is this not the same as "with God all things are possible?" [Mat 19:26]

Clearly, although in all instances pas is translated as "all" or words to that effect, the meaning is not always universal. I think we can find "common ground" thus far.

But we were not talking all of the Bible but rather 1 Timothy 2:4. The Calvinist interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:4 simply does not fit the context of the leading verses. 1 Timothy 2 begins with the following verses:

  1. I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men. 
  2. For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 
  3. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
  4. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I think you will agree that prayers etc. are intended for all mankind, and that therefore all men in verse 4 would be the same all inclusive statement—all mankind—or else it would make no sense.

5,877 posted on 09/17/2010 3:35:24 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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