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To: Cronos
The gift of tongues was the gift to speak a known language for use in transmitting the gospel message to persons who spoke that particular language.

WRONG! Where did you get that teaching from? Obviously, not from God's Word.

In all cases when it was used, it was required that a translator be present and that only one person could use the gift at one time.

WRONG again. Only while in assembly.

Tongues were never used in the New Testament as a confirmation to believers, but as a confirmation to unbelievers of the reality of what they were being told.

WRONG again. How can an unbeliever use an unknown language - that what they can't understand - as proof of anything?

The apostle Paul considered the gift of tongues to be the least of the gifts,

WRONG again. In Corinthians, Paul says..thank God that I speak in tongues MORE THAN ALL OF YOU.

Since you are taught God's Word is not the final authority, you might want to take a hint and don't speak of the things of God. Your post displays the heresy you are taught.
2,116 posted on 09/07/2010 11:57:36 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
The gift of tongues was the gift to speak a known language for use in transmitting the gospel message to persons who spoke that particular language. In all cases when it was used, it was required that a translator be present and that only one person could use the gift at one time. Tongues were never used in the New Testament as a confirmation to believers, but as a confirmation to unbelievers of the reality of what they were being told. The apostle Paul considered the gift of tongues to be the least of the gifts, but charismatic believers fervently seek after it and place it at the top as the most favored and desirable. By turning the value of the gift upside down, they show that the gift is sought, not because of its spiritual value, but because of its display and exhibitionist qualities, and the subsequent claims to spirituality and prestige that are made when a person demonstrates what is said to be the gift.



The gift of tongues was the gift to speak a known language for use in transmitting the gospel message to persons who spoke that particular language.
Lets focus our attention to the day of Pentecost as taught in Acts chapter 2:1-16

1 è And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven
tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other
tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 è And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our
tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 è But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
16
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (Joel 2:28-30)

The word "tongue" in the Greek is "dialektos" which means a dialect of language, or tongue. It is the word which derived "dialect" in English.

The word "tongues" in the Greek is "glossa" which means a language.

Verse 6 sheds some light on what is going on here. Imagine if I were to have the Spirit come over me, and I was to speak in tongues. My audience is a Chinese man, a Frenchman, and a German. None of which know my native English language. The Chinese man would hear me speaking in his native dialect of Chinese. The Frenchman would here me speak to him in his native language of French. And finally the German would hear me speaking to him in his native language of German. As we have regional dialects of English in our own country of the United States, my audience would hear me speaking to them in the regional dialect of their language. Now if this happened, this truly would be a miracle! This is confirmed by what verse 8 teaches us. Look it all over very carefully. Take apart the verses in the Greek. Prove me right, or prove me wrong.

Now lets examine "speaking in tongues" as taught by some Pentecostal churches. The Pentecostal movement tends to emphasize the gifts of the Spirit. The most prominent of these gifts is the speaking of tongues. They focus on experience. They lean on a trial and error method of trying to reach out to God. This way seems to work better than that way. This is known as circular reasoning. Think about the miracle described in Acts 2. Can you "teach" this to others? No I think not.

But you can teach a person whom is sincerely trying to seek truth a prayer language. Now I personally have no problem with whatever language you choose to speak to God in, because have studied the Scriptures I know there are no secrets from God. God knows EVERYTHING that is on your mind, and in your heart whether you want Him to know or not.

Here is the problem. Imagine for a moment that I talk to God. Often and everyday I do. I ask for wisdom and understanding of His Word on a regular basis. God does answer these prayers of mine, blessing me continually with a surprising number of sources as mundane as my speaking to an unsaved person to as spectacular as high theology conversations with a dean of a Bible collage, to genuine Spirit given understandings. However as often as I have been "bathed in the Spirit" as obvious to me that some of my understanding of the Word has come directly from the Spirit, I could never claim to be a prophet, as I never heard the Lord speak to me other than by the ears of the heart. Thus I can never say, "Thus saith the Lord..." If I were to say that, I would expose myself as a false prophet and a form of an antichrist. In my heart of hearts (which God knows all too well) I would know I am speaking falsely -even if I spoke the truth.

So how does this tie into speaking in tongues? Tongues as taught (as if you can teach a blessing from God) teaches the believer to deceive themselves into believing that a gibberish language that parrots the language handed down from their (the believer's) teacher. It counterfeits a genuine miracle by placing mans wisdom ahead of God. It goes against the Word of God, by diverting the believers attention from the very Word they profess to love, into anything else. It goes against the Word of God by emphasizing miracles and the chasing after them ahead of the very thing we love, which is to say Lord Jesus Christ.


2,132 posted on 09/08/2010 1:36:33 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: presently no screen name
It's like trying to justify talking in gibberish (which is quite different from talking in tongues i.e. languages).

The Apostles idea of speaking in tongues:
In the Bible, "tongues" always mean languages that really exist or existed. Only the apostles and some of those converted by their ministry spoke in tongues. Generally speaking, the sign-gifts are limited to the apostles (apart from the Lord, of course).

Speaking in tongues is only described in the book of Acts, in the three times when new groups of believers were introduced into the Assembly (or Church) -- the Jews in ch. 2, the Gentiles in ch. 10, and the disciples of John the Baptist in Acts 19:6. The apostles spoke in different LANGUAGES (actual human, understandable languages), without asking for it

ACTS 2

All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?
Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language?
Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome
(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"
Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"
In contrast, the strange noises made by various sham pent-e-coastl groups like oinks, gargling etc. are NOT languages of this world, most are made up, some sound demonic. How can you compare this sham "speaking in oinks" to true, Apostolic speaking in tongues?
2,133 posted on 09/08/2010 1:38:41 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: presently no screen name
And from the same website above:

But in regards to tongues consider the following verses. In fact consider the whole chapter. Further consider the whole chapter of every verse I've brought up thus far! Prove me wrong, your study will delight both the Lord and myself, especially if I am wrong, as then I'll learn something!

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.


2,134 posted on 09/08/2010 1:40:12 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: presently no screen name
many fools speak garblings and pass it off as speaking in tongues -- that is NOT speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues as what the Apostles did in Acts was to speak in cognizable LANGUAGES. Do any of your groupings do that? No. They will gargle some mutterings.

Tongues were never used in the New Testament as a confirmation to believers, but as a confirmation to unbelievers of the reality of what they were being told.

The apostle Paul considered the gift of tongues to be the least of the gifts, but charismatic believers fervently seek after it and place it at the top as the most favored and desirable.

By turning the value of the gift upside down, they show that the gift is sought, not because of its spiritual value, but because of its display and exhibitionist qualities, and the subsequent claims to spirituality and prestige that are made when a person demonstrates what is said to be the gift

2,136 posted on 09/08/2010 1:42:03 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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