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The point is that when we tell what Catholics believe about Mary from what we know from our own personal experience, we are challenged to provide sources for the claims or be branded as liars.

So, we provide sources for the claims and now are called *seriously disordered by hatred*, that we *treasure it and nurture it and lasciviously drool over it*, and that it might be a form of *morbid delectation*.

Condemned if you do, condemned if you don’t.

There’s no winning with some Roman Catholics.

True Metmom, but then they ARE seeing and hearing the truth and determining what they will or not believe....”Choose this day who your will serve”..comes to mind. So there will be no excuse on that day as we so often see on the threads.

Truth and Christ stand firmly regardless of how the distortions of others attempt to change or alter that truth... It's been that way since He came....those who desire truth in their heart and sole and truly seeking that will hear...because He said His word accomplishes what HE sets it out to do...of that we can be sure. Those who ride the fence will fall on the side of dis-belief because fence riding is a no until it is a yes to the truth.

Metmom -- the problem is that you tell us what you think someone believes or even what someone told you they believe. We ask for you to check this as to whether it really IS Church doctrine?

Now, if I take some simple, Christian, believing Protestant person and ask him what he believes in and he's wrong about a few things and then I somehow say on an internet forum "this is what all Protestants believe" -- I would be wrong and that is analogous to what the above tract does. It irritates us to be told "look, this is what I say you believe, don't tell me what you actually believe".

We can debate on the solas, but please don't tell us what we do not believe in.

It will help if you understand what the Church means by such doctrines and what it does not mean.

First, the Church recognizes that Jesus in the ultimate sense is our only redeemer—plain and simple.

Only God could make up for an offense against His divinity.

When Jesus, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity, became man, He used the services of several human beings. He used prophets, the last of whom was His cousin, John the Baptist. He used St. Joseph as his foster father to protect Him and to be a father to Him in His formative years.

Most of all, He used Mary as His mother who gave birth to Him, nursed Him, and nurtured Him as a child.

All of these people cooperated with Him and His mission of salvation.

He alone was the redeemer in the ultimate sense, but they cooperated with Him in His work of redemption.

In varying degrees they all could be called co-redeemers in the sense of co-operating not as Redeemers in any sense of the term, because of such cooperation. But because of her unique role and the degree of her cooperation, Mary is singled out. In all of humanity, God singled her out for a truly sublime role. Nursing Almighty God at her breast is beyond our ability to fully appreciate. Yet thousands of Christians since the Protestant reformation have completely ignored such sublimity.

God is the one who singled Mary out for the unique role in salvation that she has. She did not seek out such distinction. It is important to remember the high praise Jesus lavished on St. John the Baptist. Yet his mission was not nearly as exalted as Mary’s. Jesus worked his first miracle at her request. All she needed to say was: "They have no wine." He understood exactly what she wanted. He could have taken care of the matter on his own. But he chose to have his mother’s intercession be a part of the mix. The miracle wasn’t any less significant because of her part in it. On the contrary, she shows us how accessible he is to our needs. To truly appreciate Mary is to appreciate her Son all the more

The point is that when we tell what Catholics believe about Mary from what we know from our own personal experience, we are challenged to provide sources for the claims or be branded as liars.

Condemned if you do, condemned if you don’t.

There’s no winning with some Roman Catholics.

INDEED TO THE MAX.