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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
"1 Corinthians 15:45 οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν

The bolded word he uses is ginomai, that is—to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born, to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen, of events, to arise, appear in history, of men appearing in public, to be made, finished, of miracles to be performed, wrought, to become, be made, based on how ginomai is used throughout the New Testament.

It's not about Christ' actions, as you claim, but how he came to be—at least in Greek. What they do with it in English may be a whole different story. No wonder we don't see the same thing in the same verses."

Kosta is correct. This is an important, indeed fundamental point of Christian theology. The Creed demonstrates this when speaking about Christ. We proclaim Christ:

"καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν Μονογενῆ, and

γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο·

Words like Μονογενῆ, and γεννηθέντα "only begotten and "begotten" are contrasted with ποιηθέντα, "made" or ἐγένετο, "came into being". Add to these such words as "σαρκωθέντα ","enfleshed" and "ἐνανθρωπήσαντα", "became man" and remember that Christ is called "Ο ΩΝ", basically "the Being Who Creates Existence", and you can see who either +Paul got it very, very wrong, or Protestantism, especially using bad English translations, has distorted what in fact was being taught by +Paul. , τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων,

15,806 posted on 11/17/2010 4:31:56 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50
[Re: 1 Corinthians 15:45] Kosta: The bolded word he uses is ginomai, that is—to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born, to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen, of events, to arise, appear in history, of men appearing in public, to be made, finished, of miracles to be performed, wrought, to become, be made, based on how ginomai is used throughout the New Testament.

Kolo: Kosta is correct. This is an important, indeed fundamental point of Christian theology. The Creed demonstrates this when speaking about Christ.

Kolo: ... Add to these such words as "σαρκωθέντα ","enfleshed" and "ἐνανθρωπήσαντα", "became man" and remember that Christ is called "Ο ΩΝ", basically "the Being Who Creates Existence", and you can see who either +Paul got it very, very wrong, or Protestantism, especially using bad English translations, has distorted what in fact was being taught by +Paul. , τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων,

This is what Strong's says: NT:1096 ginomai (ghin'-om-ahee); a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"- erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.): KJV - arise, be assembled, be (-come, -fall, -haveself), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought. (emphasis added)

The Protestant view of Paul is easily within these parameters since it is by no means required that ginomai can ONLY mean "come into existence". So, as is always the case, Bible-believing Protestantism AND Paul are both right and in agreement. :)

15,814 posted on 11/17/2010 11:11:14 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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