[Forest Keeper]

[Re: 1 Corinthians 15:45] Kosta: The bolded word he uses is ginomai, that is—to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born, to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen, of events, to arise, appear in history, of men appearing in public, to be made, finished, of miracles to be performed, wrought, to become, be made, based on how ginomai is used throughout the New Testament.

Kolo: Kosta is correct. This is an important, indeed fundamental point of Christian theology. The Creed demonstrates this when speaking about Christ.

Kolo: ... Add to these such words as "σαρκωθέντα ","enfleshed" and "ἐνανθρωπήσαντα", "became man" and remember that Christ is called "Ο ΩΝ", basically "the Being Who Creates Existence", and you can see who either +Paul got it very, very wrong, or Protestantism, especially using bad English translations, has distorted what in fact was being taught by +Paul. , τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων,

This is what Strong's says: NT:1096 ginomai (ghin'-om-ahee); a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"- erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.): KJV - arise, be assembled, be (-come, -fall, -haveself), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought. (emphasis added)

The Protestant view of Paul is easily within these parameters since it is by no means required that ginomai can ONLY mean "come into existence". So, as is always the case, Bible-believing Protestantism AND Paul are both right and in agreement. :)

[kosta50]

The Protestant view of Paul is easily within these parameters since it is by no means required that ginomai can ONLY mean "come into existence".

So, what does in the "Protestant view" ginomai mean in 1 Cor 15:45?

If I remember correctly, you said it meant Christ's mission or work. Your own definition doesn't support that, FK. Especially since Paul uses it only once for both Adam and Christ.

[Kolokotronis]

I’m not surprised that Strong translates the way he does, consistent with the Methodist theology he embraced. But here, Strong is wrong.

FK, I am curious. Why would anyone think a 19th century Protestant from NJ who likely never went to Greece, maybe even never knew a Greek, let alone a Greek Orthodox theologian, would be an authority on koine or Byzantine Greek?

[daniel1212]

G1096 γίνομαι ginomai As used in KJV. Total KJV Occurrences: 456
came, 88 Mat. 7:28, Mat. 9:10, Mat. 11:1, Mat. 13:53, Mat. 26:1 (2), Mk. 1:9, Mk. 1:11, Mk. 2:15, Mk. 2:23, Mk. 4:4, Mk. 9:21, Luk. 1:8, Luk. 1:23, Luk. 1:41, Luk. 1:59, Luk. 1:65, Luk. 2:1, Luk. 2:15, Luk. 2:46, Luk. 3:2, Luk. 3:21-22 (2), Luk. 5:1, Luk. 5:12, Luk. 5:17, Luk. 6:1, Luk. 6:6, Luk. 6:12, Luk. 7:11, Luk. 8:1, Luk. 8:22, Luk. 8:40, Luk. 9:18, Luk. 9:28, Luk. 9:33-35 (3), Luk. 9:37, Luk. 9:51, Luk. 9:57, Luk. 10:38, Luk. 11:1, Luk. 11:14, Luk. 11:27, Luk. 14:1, Luk. 16:22, Luk. 17:11, Luk. 17:14, Luk. 18:35, Luk. 19:15, Luk. 19:29, Luk. 20:1, Luk. 24:4, Luk. 24:15, Luk. 24:30, Luk. 24:51, Jn. 1:17, Jn. 10:35, Jn. 12:30, Acts 2:2, Acts 2:43, Acts 5:5 (2), Acts 5:11, Acts 7:31, Acts 9:3, Acts 9:32, Acts 9:37, Acts 9:43, Acts 10:13, Acts 11:26, Acts 11:28, Acts 14:1, Acts 16:16, Acts 16:29, Acts 21:1 (2), Acts 21:35, Acts 22:6, Acts 22:17, Acts 27:44, Acts 28:8, Acts 28:17, 2Co. 1:8, 1Th. 1:5, 1Th. 3:4, 2Ti. 3:11 made, 73 Mat. 4:3, Mat. 9:16, Mat. 23:15, Mat. 25:6, Mat. 27:24, Mk. 2:21, Mk. 2:27, Mk. 14:4, Luk. 4:2-3 (2), Luk. 8:17, Luk. 23:12 (2), Luk. 23:19, Jn. 1:3 (3), Jn. 1:10, Jn. 1:14, Jn. 2:9, Jn. 5:4, Jn. 5:6, Jn. 5:9, Jn. 5:14, Jn. 8:33, Jn. 9:39, Acts 7:13, Acts 12:5, Acts 13:32, Acts 14:5, Acts 19:26, Acts 21:40, Acts 26:6, Rom. 1:3, Rom. 2:25, Rom. 7:13, Rom. 10:20, Rom. 11:9, 1Co. 1:30, 1Co. 3:13, 1Co. 4:9, 1Co. 4:13, 1Co. 9:21-22 (2), 1Co. 11:19, 1Co. 14:25, 1Co. 15:45 (2), 2Co. 5:21, Gal. 3:13, Gal. 4:4 (2), Eph. 2:13, Phil 2:7 (3), Col. 1:23, Col. 1:25, Col. 2:11, Tit. 3:7, Heb. 1:4, Heb. 3:14, Heb. 5:5, Heb. 6:4, Heb. 6:20, Heb. 7:12, Heb. 7:16, Heb. 7:21-22 (2), Heb. 7:26, Heb. 11:3, James 3:9, 1Pe. 2:7 done, 63 Mat. 1:22, Mat. 6:10, Mat. 8:13, Mat. 11:20-21 (3), Mat. 11:23 (2), Mat. 18:19, Mat. 18:31 (2), Mat. 21:4, Mat. 21:21, Mat. 26:42, Mat. 26:56, Mat. 27:54, Mk. 4:11 (2), Mk. 5:14, Mk. 5:33, Mk. 13:30, Luk. 4:23, Luk. 8:34-35 (2), Luk. 8:56, Luk. 9:7, Luk. 10:13 (2), Luk. 11:2, Luk. 13:17, Luk. 14:22, Luk. 22:42, Luk. 23:8, Luk. 23:31, Luk. 23:47-48 (2), Luk. 24:21, Jn. 1:28, Jn. 15:7, Jn. 19:36, Acts 2:43, Acts 4:16, Acts 4:21, Acts 4:28, Acts 4:30, Acts 5:7, Acts 8:13, Acts 10:16, Acts 11:10, Acts 12:9, Acts 13:12, Acts 14:3, Acts 21:14, Acts 24:2, Acts 28:9, 1Co. 9:15, 1Co. 14:26, 1Co. 14:40, 1Co. 16:14, Eph. 5:12, Rev. 16:17, Rev. 22:6 (2) come, 44 Mat. 8:16, Mat. 14:23, Mat. 20:8, Mat. 24:6, Mat. 26:20, Mat. 27:1, Mat. 27:57, Mk. 4:35, Mk. 6:2, Mk. 6:21, Mk. 6:47, Mk. 11:19, Mk. 11:23, Mk. 13:29, Mk. 15:33, Mk. 15:42, Luk. 2:15, Luk. 19:9, Luk. 21:7, Luk. 21:9, Luk. 21:28, Luk. 21:31, Luk. 21:36, Luk. 22:14, Luk. 24:12, Luk. 24:18, Jn. 5:14, Jn. 6:16, Jn. 13:19 (2), Jn. 14:29 (2), Jn. 21:4, Acts 12:11, Acts 21:17, Acts 26:22, Acts 27:7, Acts 27:16, Acts 27:27, Acts 28:6, Gal. 3:14, Heb. 11:24, Rev. 1:1, Rev. 12:10	become, 25 Mat. 18:3, Mat. 21:42, Mk. 1:17, Mk. 12:10, Luk. 20:17, Jn. 1:12, Acts 4:11, Acts 7:40, Rom. 3:18-19 (2), Rom. 4:18, Rom. 7:13, 1Co. 3:18, 1Co. 8:9, 1Co. 13:1, 1Co. 15:20, 2Co. 5:17, 2Co. 12:11, Gal. 4:16, Phm. 1:6, Heb. 5:12, James 2:4, James 2:11, Rev. 11:15, Rev. 18:2 became, 18 Mat. 28:4, Mk. 9:3, Acts 10:10, 1Co. 9:20, 1Co. 9:22, 1Co. 13:11, Phil 2:8, 1Th. 1:6, 1Th. 2:14, Heb. 5:9, Heb. 10:33, Heb. 11:7, Rev. 6:12 (2), Rev. 8:8, Rev. 8:11, Rev. 16:3-4 (2) forbid, 15 Luk. 20:16, Rom. 3:4, Rom. 3:6, Rom. 3:31, Rom. 6:2, Rom. 6:15, Rom. 7:7, Rom. 9:13-14 (2), Rom. 11:1, Rom. 11:11, 1Co. 6:15, Gal. 2:17, Gal. 3:21, Gal. 6:14 god, 15 Luk. 20:16, Rom. 3:4, Rom. 3:6, Rom. 3:31, Rom. 6:2, Rom. 6:15, Rom. 7:7, Rom. 9:13-14 (2), Rom. 11:1, Rom. 11:11, 1Co. 6:15, Gal. 2:17, Gal. 3:21, Gal. 6:14 been, 14 Luk. 16:10-12 (3), Luk. 19:17, Acts 7:52, Acts 15:7, Acts 19:21, Acts 20:18, Acts 26:32, Rom. 9:29, Rom. 11:34, Rom. 16:2, Col. 4:11, 1Ti. 5:9 arose, 11 Mat. 8:24, Mk. 4:37, Luk. 6:48, Luk. 15:14, Jn. 3:25, Acts 6:1, Acts 11:19, Acts 19:23, Acts 23:7, Acts 23:9-10 (2) being, 5 Mk. 9:33, Luk. 22:44, James 1:25 1Pe. 1:7, 1Pe. 5:3 becometh, 4 Mat. 13:22, Mat. 13:32, Mk. 4:19, Mk. 4:32 fulfilled, 3 Mat. 5:18, Mat. 24:34, Luk. 21:32 cometh, 2 Luk. 12:54-55 (2), 1Ti. 6:4 doing, 2 Mat. 21:42, Mk. 12:11 grow, 2 Mat. 21:19, Acts 5:24 had, 2 Acts 15:2, Acts 25:26 have, 2 Mat. 18:12, 1Co. 4:5 past, 2 Luk. 9:36, 2Ti. 2:18 preferred, 2 Jn. 1:27, Jn. 1:30 seemed, 2 Mat. 11:26, Luk. 10:21 showed, 2 Acts 4:21-22 (2), Acts 10:40 trembled, 2 Acts 7:32, Acts 24:25	waxed, 2 Luk. 13:19, Heb. 11:34 wrought, 2 Mk. 6:2, Acts 5:12 altered, 1 Luk. 9:29 married, 3 Rom. 7:3-4 (3) abroad, 2 Mk. 6:14, Acts 2:6 ariseth, 2 Mat. 13:21, Mk. 4:17 brought, 2 Acts 5:36, 1Co. 15:54 amazed, 1 Luk. 4:36 assembled, 1 Acts 15:25 awaking, 1 Acts 16:27 befell, 1 Mk. 5:16 behaved, 1 1Th. 2:10 camest, 1 Jn. 6:25 coming, 1 Acts 27:33 continued, 1 Acts 19:10 divided, 1 Rev. 16:19 drawing, 1 Jn. 6:19 (2) ended, 1 Jn. 13:2 even, 1 Mk. 1:32 falling, 1 Acts 1:18 fell, 1 Rev. 16:2 finished, 1 Heb. 4:2-3 (2) followed, 1 Rev. 8:7 found, 1 2Co. 7:14 give, 1 1Co. 10:32 happened, 1 Rom. 11:25 kept, 1 Mk. 4:22 laid, 1 Acts 20:3 lost, 1 Mk. 9:50	means, 1 Heb. 9:15 noised, 1 Acts 2:6 ordained, 1 Acts 1:22 partakest, 1 Rom. 11:17 performed, 1 Luk. 1:20 published, 1 Acts 10:37 purposed, 1 Acts 20:3 put, 1 Jn. 12:42 require, 1 1Co. 7:36 saltness, 1 Mk. 9:50 soon, 1 Acts 12:18 sounded, 1 Luk. 1:44 taken, 1 2Th. 2:7 thundered, 1 Jn. 12:29 trembling, 1 Acts 16:29 (2) turned, 1 Jn. 16:20 used, 1 1Th. 2:5 vanished, 1 Luk. 24:31 wait, 1 Acts 20:3 wept, 1 Acts 20:37 would, 1 Acts 20:16 years, 1 Heb. 11:24