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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
Yes, in the sense that we are born dead in our sins and then later are given life by Christ.

But Paul doesn't say that Christ is the life-giving spirit, but that he came into existence (became) a life-giving spirit the way Adam became (came into existence) as a living soul (psyche). He is talking about their coming into existence.

No, and Paul knew that. Here Paul was looking at Christ's actions, not His existence

The Bible does not support your view.

1 Corinthians 15:45 οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν

The bolded word he uses is ginomai, that is—to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born, to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen, of events, to arise, appear in history, of men appearing in public, to be made, finished, of miracles to be performed, wrought, to become, be made, based on how ginomai is used throughout the New Testament.

It's not about Christ' actions, as you claim, but how he came to be—at least in Greek. What they do with it in English may be a whole different story. No wonder we don't see the same thing in the same verses.

15,802 posted on 11/16/2010 11:37:57 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
"1 Corinthians 15:45 οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν

The bolded word he uses is ginomai, that is—to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born, to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen, of events, to arise, appear in history, of men appearing in public, to be made, finished, of miracles to be performed, wrought, to become, be made, based on how ginomai is used throughout the New Testament.

It's not about Christ' actions, as you claim, but how he came to be—at least in Greek. What they do with it in English may be a whole different story. No wonder we don't see the same thing in the same verses."

Kosta is correct. This is an important, indeed fundamental point of Christian theology. The Creed demonstrates this when speaking about Christ. We proclaim Christ:

"καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν Μονογενῆ, and

γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο·

Words like Μονογενῆ, and γεννηθέντα "only begotten and "begotten" are contrasted with ποιηθέντα, "made" or ἐγένετο, "came into being". Add to these such words as "σαρκωθέντα ","enfleshed" and "ἐνανθρωπήσαντα", "became man" and remember that Christ is called "Ο ΩΝ", basically "the Being Who Creates Existence", and you can see who either +Paul got it very, very wrong, or Protestantism, especially using bad English translations, has distorted what in fact was being taught by +Paul. , τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων,

15,806 posted on 11/17/2010 4:31:56 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
Sorry!

"1 Corinthians 15:45 οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν

The bolded word he uses is ginomai, that is—to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being, to be born, to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen, of events, to arise, appear in history, of men appearing in public, to be made, finished, of miracles to be performed, wrought, to become, be made, based on how ginomai is used throughout the New Testament.

It's not about Christ' actions, as you claim, but how he came to be—at least in Greek. What they do with it in English may be a whole different story. No wonder we don't see the same thing in the same verses."

Kosta is correct. This is an important, indeed fundamental point of Christian theology. The Creed demonstrates this when speaking about Christ. We proclaim Christ:

"καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν Μονογενῆ,

and

τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων

γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο·

Words like Μονογενῆ, and γεννηθέντα "only begotten and "begotten" are contrasted with ποιηθέντα, "made" or ἐγένετο, "came into being". Add to these such words as "σαρκωθέντα ","enfleshed" and "ἐνανθρωπήσαντα", "became man" and remember that Christ is called "Ο ΩΝ", basically "the Being Who Creates Existence", and you can see who either +Paul got it very, very wrong, or Protestantism, especially using bad English translations, has distorted what in fact was being taught by +Paul. ,

15,808 posted on 11/17/2010 4:34:47 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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