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To: blue-duncan; stfassisi; D-fendr; Kolokotronis
The servant that gives light: Jesus...

The servant that gives light is Israel, the wisest nation on earth who will lead and teach the gentiles (Deut 4:5-8; Zech 8:23), because Jews are called to be the light of the nations (so the world would know the God of Israel through them). You should know that since the New Testament even says so: "salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22)

The blinded servant: Israel...

No, it's the blindness of the people. Take for example Isa 52:15 where he makes it very clear that the Servant will cause the Gentile kings to see and hear, so how can the Servant be "blind and deaf?"

The fact that the Servant is Israel is in all the references I gave you previously: the Servant is identified by name numerous times and it ain't Jesus. You choose to ignore all of them and interpolate through the New Testament (specifically only through Luke, who is not even Jewish or an eyewitness to Christ, and whose Gospel exists in two versions) that it is all about Jesus, writing at least 400 to 500 years after the fact. 

The problem, better yet, the futility is that you attempt to "prove" that Isaiah is about Jesus through the New Testament, written by fanatical Jesus followers decades after Jesus died. This is like Daniel (the last Old Testament book to be written, in the 2nd century BC) writing "prophesies" as if he were writing them 400 years prior! Or, like using the Book of Mormon to "prove" the "veracity" of the Mormon interpretation of the New Testament. Or the Muslims claiming to have the "last" revelation through the Koran.

But Isiah's vagueness is a gold mine where one could imply anything, especially after the fact and knowing there are no other historical sources to verify any such allegations. Taken on blind faith, such allegations then become internal self-serving "proof" of "prophesies" that have no external corroboration.

If Isaiah simply cannot be proven on its own (and it can't) that it is about Jesus without acceptiong the New Testament on blind faith, then it is not about Jesus, but is made to be about Jesus. It becomes a retro-egineered "proof" for a specific agenda. The New Testament was written so as to agree with the Christian interpretation, because Christians had an agenda and a motive to do so.  This is not unique. Daniel was written "prophetically" after the fact as well. This is a trick used by ancient writers, to "prove" their credibility. It works for the gullible.

Some of the parallels with Jesus based on the New Testament in reference to Jesus are both supported and contradicted by the same New Testament. For example, it is said that the suffering Servant will be quiet like a lamb, and the synoptic Gospels seem to support this. But John's Gospel doesn't!

And speaking of the Servant, Isaiah 53:10 says "But the LORD was pleased [sic] to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering, he will see His offspring [!] and will prolong  His days [!]...

Isaiah 53:11 suggests that it is through the Servant's knowledge, not faith in him, that many will be justified. Etc., etc...

I was just curious to see what evidence you had that Isaiah was about Jesus and your evidence is the New Testament, specifically Luke, not Isaiah. To me, that is no different than someone quoting the Book of Mormon to "prove" the LDS interpretation of the New Testament. This is no different than Paul saying Christ commissioned him and you must take him on his word. Or that anonymous Gospel writers were really who the Bible says they were. It is like me telling you there are pink unicorns on Jupiter because I know it, and I wrote about it.

15,724 posted on 11/11/2010 10:40:01 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50; stfassisi; D-fendr; Kolokotronis

“I was just curious to see what evidence you had that Isaiah was about Jesus and your evidence is the New Testament, specifically Luke, not Isaiah”

As I said, it looks like Zechariah 3:8 testifies that the Branch, the Messiah, is God’s servant. “Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.” Both Isaiah and Jeremiah identify the “Branch” as a descendant of Jesse. Isaiah identifies the Branch as Jesus, 11:1-2 “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.”

Jer 23:5 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.” Jer 33:15 “In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.”

No where in the scriptures is Israel mentioned as the “Branch”; only the Messiah.

Israel has not had a king of the lineage of Jesse since the time of the exile during Jeremiah’s prophetic life. Jesus has been identified as the descendant of Jesse who will be king.

Further, Jesus quotes this Isaiah passage as identifying himself as the servant; In Matthew 12:18-21, “ Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.”

This is a quote from an eye witness to the testimony of Jesus.


15,729 posted on 11/11/2010 12:21:44 PM PST by blue-duncan
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