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To: RnMomof7; kosta50; wagglebee; MarkBsnr; Natural Law

No. Is it your belief that God’s chosen people are post toasties now? What about when Jesus Christ himself said:

Matthew 5
The Fulfillment of the Law
17”Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Christ came for the Jewish people not the Christians. Are Calvinists as a matter of doctrine, anti-semites? Don’t take that to be hateful toward you personally. If/do you(collectively) think that God disowned the Jews? My Catholic faith tells me that we (gentiles) are in addition to the Jews not instead of.

If it is doctrinally believed that God abandoned the Jews then the once saved always saved or elect status is not true.

Another story to be mocked for. I have a friend who is non-denominational. I told her that you could e-mail prayers to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. She wanted to know why on earth you’d ask Jews to pray for you.


11,119 posted on 10/13/2010 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jaded (Stumbling blocks ALL AROUND, some of them camouflaged well. My toes hurt, but I got past them.)
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To: Jaded; RnMomof7; Dr. Eckleburg
Are Calvinists as a matter of doctrine, anti-semites?

What an odd question.

We are, as are all Christians, ingrafted into the line of Abraham.

11,128 posted on 10/13/2010 7:00:10 PM PDT by Gamecock ( Christianity is not the movement from vice to virtue, but from virtue to Grace.)
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To: Jaded; Gamecock; RnMomof7
Read the Bible. God didn't change His mind. He has always had "one people" - those who waited for Christ by faith and those who love Christ's appearing. This is one article of faith Protestants share with Roman Catholics...unless, of course, Rome has rewritten its beliefs again.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." -- Galatians 3:28-29


11,142 posted on 10/13/2010 7:50:52 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Jaded; RnMomof7; wagglebee; MarkBsnr; Natural Law
What about when Jesus Christ himself said: Matthew 5 The Fulfillment of the Law...Christ came for the Jewish people not the Chris

Absolutely. He speaks like any Jew would, for the Torah (the Law) is forever (see the Old Testament) and cannot be fulfilled! Matthew's Jesus also states very clearly that he was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel and he specifically defines this mission to be limited to the areas not inhabited by Gentiles or even Samaritans.  (Someone will come back with  Matthew 28:19—don't bother, it's a latter-day addition to the text).

I told her that you could e-mail prayers to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. She wanted to know why on earth you’d ask Jews to pray for you.

In Judaism one can pray for anything, but praying for the Gentiles may be hypocritical. Sometime towards the end of the first century, Judaism made a clean break with Christians as heretics. Since then, they instituted blessing number 12 (Birkat HaMinim) in the morning prayers (Amidah) cursing all minims (sectarians), such as Essenes, Gnostics, Nazarenes (Christians), etc. collectively. The blessing reads (in translation from Hebrew):

"as for the sectarians (or usurpers) let there be no hope, and may all the evil in an instant be destroyed and all Thy enemies be cut down swiftly; and the evil ones uproot and break and destroy and humble soon in our days. Blessed are You, LORD, who breaks down enemies and humbles sinners."

Hardly charitable or comparable to Christian prayers. But the Jews are under no commandment to love their enemies, so judging it by Christian standards is pointless and wrong. We cannot hold the Jews, who are under the Law, to Christian values.

Knowing this, how can you ask a Jew to pray for a Gentile in the afternoon if you know he crused him in the morning?

11,248 posted on 10/14/2010 5:47:49 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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