Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
What was the wording on the tablets?
You did no such thing.
God commands that we present the gospel to all men.
I'm not asking about presenting the gospel, I'm asking why you'd be worried about someone's soul if they're predestined.
We do not know who is elect or who is not
Why does it matter to you? Do you think you will change God's will? Why worry about it?
“To Catholics Jesus died to make open the gates of heaven so men could save themselves”
I’m so weary of these false posts about Catholicism.
I simply can’t understand how any true happiness can result from this ongoing disparegement about Catholicism.
Supposedly it’s to “rescue” us—or move us to “repent” as we are frequently told to do by some FReformeds.
And yes, I have often wondered where they “come up with this stuff.” On the authority of some church leader? Some religious commentator? some shameful comic books? some self-appointed theologian? There has to be some source of their own brand of magisterium.
disparagement—spelled correctly
I’m about to ditch this thread. It’s just getting more bizarre by the day.
I’ve thought of that today.
It’s so —like—the same old thing regurgitated again and again.
I believe I would find myself in good company if I did ditch. :-)
That's not true.
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
There are no images of worship in the Church.
Really, if you had done even a bit of research, the Protestants here wouldn't be making such foolish statements about the division of the Decalogue.
To act in the person of Christ means to have the authority of Christ to decide the matter on hand, as if Christ Himself had decided it. This is clear from John 20, where Christ said “as my Father sent me, I send you. What sins you forgive, will be forgiven in heaven, and what sins you retain will stay retained”.
This might explain the distinction between teaching and fathering. While both are important, the “fathering” in 1 Cor. 4:15 is, I think, a reference to the spiritual authority Paul has as an apostle, that is, as someone sent by Christ as Christ was sent by His Father. But I would concede that it is not plainly visible in the text, it is just how I understand it.
Now, in 2 Cor. 2:10 the situation is complicated because the local church already pardoned the penintents, and now St. Paul attaches the authority of Christ to it. This is also the understanding of St. John Chrysostom in the homily cited before, and I think it is plain in the text.
Flip Wilson's Geraldine said it right.
What's interesting to me is that a lot of these falsehoods are perpetuated by former and failed Catholics who couldn't be bothered to learn about the Church but are now self-proclaimed experts on the Church. If one is predestined, I guess it is ok to lie because it doesn't really matter.
I wish you could have been at my house this evening! (I live with my son and dil and their boys). We had a bunch of out of town company.
We had cocktails and appetizers, Several different cheeses and some gourmet crackers. Then salad and BBQ shrimp (shrimp marinated in mesquite, just mouthwatering) then BBQ ribs, then apple pie and French vanilla ice cream. Everything was made by hand, I made two loaves of bread, daughter made the two apple pies, son BBQ’d, dil prepped appetizers, made potato salad and baked beans. I really can’t remember all the food on the table, except my mother said it was better than the very nice restaurant meal I had with her several weeks ago.
The really great thing was, there was a presbyterian, some Catholics, a lutheran, some Methodists, and a Jew there. No arguments, but a lot of warm love and a number of laughs. The Presbyterian had recently been to Haiti on a medical mission, had many thrilling stories. One young couple had been to Mexico this past summer (yes, there are cool places there, even in July).
The long and lovely evening ended with many warm hugs, lots of peace, and a new storehouse of memories. You would have loved it. We caught up on the European and North American travels, the son studying architecture in Italy, the teens’ activities, a little religion, a bit of politics, a bunch of jokes, some songs, etc. I would have loved to have you there, sharing the evening with us.
We’re getting together for lunch tomorrow. Can you make it? We’d pick you up from the airport.
Good Shepherd fresco from the Catacombs of San Callisto
Bearded Christ, from catacombs of Commodilla
Oldest known image of the St. Paul (interesting to compare this with El Greco's painting.)
Below is "Fractio Panis" on the face of the arch immediately over the altar tomb, upon which the sacrament of the Eucharist was performed (Catacomb of Priscilla):
"The Breaking of Bread was not just the opening gesture of the agape as such, but was surrounded by a complex liturgy: there were psalms, readings from the prophets, homily of the celebrant, etc."
Interesting Wiki description of the painting.
From the site above a section on Spirituality of the Catacombs. The opening graphs of this section:
An unknown believer in early times, while wandering through the vast Callixtian complex, all of a sudden thought he had entered the mystical Jerusalem, a city purpled by the blood of martyrs and resplendent with their glory. As he went out he carved on the plastered wall near the crypt of the Popes a statement we can still read to-day: "Gerusale, civitas et ornamentum martyru(m) D(e)i ..." - "Jerusalem, city and ornament of God's martyrs ...". To-day's pilgrims can likewise grasp the innermost secret of the spirituality of those martyred Popes, of those Virgins and of the numberless host of humble Christians.The inscriptions and paintings, which have survived the many ravages and pillages, reveal at least in part such a secret and still repeat the words engraved in an ancient epitaph "Tàuta o bìos" - "Such is our life".Such an incredible wealth of information about the very early Church: the sacraments, liturgy, symbology, the earliest Christian art..The spirituality of the catacombs is the same as that of the primitive Church. Nourished on the marrow of Scriptures, simple, yet powerful, it is the sister of the most ancient liturgies; so that the visitors to the catacombs can draw from the very sources of Christian spirituality.
Interesting to me, too.
The explanation for their bigotry seems embarrassingly obvious.
Well, it would embarass us if we did it. Not so much them. There's no need for embarassment if you're predestined; all the bad things you do can't be attributed to yourself.
Probably, but I was on my way out, brain was other places. How about 64M? You still won’t get an answer because today they are not the “predestined elect”. Check back Monday or Tuesday and it will probably change.
Um, that would be because Jesus Christ said so himself. Wait, Paul didn’t say it so it doesn’t count.
This gets more ridiculous by the hour.
They probably don’t approve of those either.
What meaning Paul attaches to his words we can discern by how he used those same words in other places. For example:
1 Cor. 13:12, “prosspon” face to face
1 Cor. 14:25, “prosopon” face
2 Cor. 3:7, “prosopon” face and countenance
2 Cor. 3:13 “prosopon” face
Gal. 1:22 “prosopo” by face, i.e., seeing him in person
Heb. 9:24 “”prosopo” presence (of Christ in heaven)
This is only a sampling but I'm sure the other instances of Paul's use of “prosopos(n) will yield similar results but you can look yourself in any concordance.
What is plain in each of these texts is that it has naught to do with authority to forgive or act in Christ's stead or place but simply in front of, witnessed by, face, in the presence of someone, etc. which is what I have pointed out over and over.
Now if you or Chrysostom want to attach a certain theological interpretation to Paul's words, that's another matter, but I think I would determine Paul's meaning and import from the words he chose and how he used them, their definition in the language Paul was writing in.
Paul's apostolic authority was not in question or THE question so there is no need to try to see some reference to it in these particular Scriptures or in the “prosopos” of 2 Cor. 2:10.
Paul could be certain that he had acted for the sakes of the Corinthians “in the presence” of Christ, i.e., “(Christ looking on and approving)” as Thayer’s describes “presence” at 2 Cor. 2:10.
For “mere presence” Greek has another word, “paraousia”.
Dear Judith,
Your post to me brought tears to my eyes. I would have been at your get-together in a heartbeat and been very much at home!
If it had been a party at my house it would have been a lot like yours: my mom began to go to church again (Presbyterian),late in her life and before her death; my Dad was brought up Methodist; my two older sisters (who both passed away within months of my husband’s death last year) were Baptists and also their families, as were their husbands; since I lived in a neighborhood highly populated with Jews in my teen years, my best friends in high school were Jewish. In fact, in high school I studied Hebrew for a while.
I would have loved the bread, since I used to make my own bread when all my kids were little. My favorite pie is apple pie. The only thing I wold have had to skip would be that shrimp as I have an allergy to shellfish.
The jokes and songs would have been great, too, as we’re Irish/Scotch and German mix and when we are all together, everyone is always laughing. I have 24 grandchildren and 24 great-grandchildren.
SO-—I’d get on that plane in a heartbeat and would love to be at your party. I think you would find that I would blend in nicely. :-)
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