Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
Is Romans 9 not in your Bible?
"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory...?"
-- Romans 9:21-23
This was in answer to you stating: It says nothing about raising children to kneel before Christ. and Ephesians 6:4 most certainly does say that. The fathers were always to be the spritual leaders in the home and we know from other verses that the mother and the father share the responsibility before the Lord.
That's a contradiction; further the correct word would be choice not fault.
All men are fallen and all men deserve hell. Period.
So, instead of "their own fault" you have it "their most distant ancestor fault." The same only worse and God's judgement is a blood feud - again.
The fact that God chooses some men to redeem by Christ does not make God a monster.
What makes god a monster is doing so capriciously and to creatures without free will, either incapable of repentance or incapable of not repenting. We are unaware tools. This is so far from basic scripture, from any plain reading of Our Saviour and His loving Father. This is so far from human experience of our life and love and relationship.
Humans might as well be cats and god might as well be picking us out of a sack, throwing some into the river to drown. But all the cats deserved it because a cat once scratched him, so those remaining should be grateful for his mercy.
No.
No. In fact I believe taking this as either a possibility or having it as a motivation is a big step away from God.
No man can keep the whole law blameless, but he can try. You can honestly try even if you honestly fail. The intent matters.
Interesting statement.
I've already given you the RCC teaching on Original Sin. It jives with my understanding, not yours which seems to be something of your own making.
What makes god a monster is doing so capriciously
God is not capricious even though some men have a difficult time believing Scripture.
Let's examine your disgust with God's plan of salvation and why you think as you do.
Apparently you think all men need to earn their own salvation by doing enough good works to merit God's grace.
Yet Paul says unless we keep ALL the law we have kept NONE of the law, and the law will condemn us.
So, do you sin? If you do, then you are condemned by the law.
But God is merciful and says He realizes we cannot do enough good works to merit salvation.
As Paul tells us...
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing OF regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" -- Titus 3:5
Does God regenerate all men? If He did, all men would be saved by the grace of God. Does God renew all men by the Holy Spirit? If He did, all men would believe.
Therefore, it is God who elects, and not men who elect themselves.
In this modern era, we all balk at thinking another person controls our destiny. Pity that some of us don't realize the being who controls our destiny is the Triune God, creator of all life.
Given a choice between trusting myself to save myself, or trusting God to save me, I will choose the latter. By the grace of God alone.
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind." -- Job 12:9-10
"Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." -- John 10:25-26 "Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
As Christ said, His sheep haven't chosen Him. He has chosen His sheep.
That is wonderful news for the Christian. May all the earth know it and believe it and be saved by God's unmerited mercy.
And then you have verses such as Roman 11:32 "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." Where is the double predestination?
Can you point me to a "plain reading of basic scripture" that shows Our Savior and His loving Father declaring any plans for Pharoah, other than to despoil Egypt financially, kill Egypt's firstborn, Egypt's army, and Pharoah himself - and because God had planned ahead of time to intentionally mess with Pharoah's heart?
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
-- Romans 9:14-20
God's saving grace is given to whom He pleases for His own reasons.
If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved.
Amen.
Yeah, but you didn't go back far enough. It was actually Dr. E's claim that her obligation is to raise children to bend their knees before Christ and my comment that her obligation ended when she gave birth. The raising of the children in the ways of the Lord was placed on the father's shoulders in the OT.
Mothers are to be obeyed, but it says nothing about them teaching things regarding the Lord.
The Bible says he does.
He was making the distinction between men of age and infants. But of course men must commit a sin in order to be condemned. And because all men sin, all men are condemned.
The reason all men sin is because all men's natures were corrupted when their first father, Adam, fell. We inherited our sin nature and we live up to that nature.
When you find a sinless man other than Christ, you let us all know.
The glory of salvation is not that we stop sinning, but that Christ covers us in His righteousness and thereby makes us want to stop sinning.
If God wanted every man on earth to be saved individually, every individual man on earth would be saved. He's God. He gets what He wants.
Thanks.
I agree.
I think it is wrong-— this false premise about what Catholics “believe” regarding “works” and I think it is wrong for it to be postulated again and again on this forum by those who consistently post derogatory comments against Catholic beliefs and practices.
It doesn’t help their cause.
You, OTOH, have told us you do not believe the Bible and you question its authority. You question the very existence of God.
So arguing with you is like arguing with an atheist. There's no common ground. It's fruitless.
If I quote Scripture, you say "so what?" But worse still, when you do offer Scripture as proof of your position, you do it while not even believing it. So I'm not about to debate with you when you don't have any faith in the evidence you offer, but simply use it to prove anyone who does believe it is stupid.
These kinds of discussions aren't my priority. But good luck with them.
Of course I have Romans 9, but to take this as double predestination ignores context of the Jews and the elect in Christ. Paul is not establishing the doctrine of Calvinist or Double Predestination. That we are created doomed or saved "for no cause", etc. and that nothing can change that. This view makes the very act of teaching and preaching, of Paul and Christ, futile, moot.
Romans 5:“God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.”Double predestination makes nonsense of the total of the Gospel. We are not told: "It's tough luck you can't be reborn, 'cause it was all over the first time."Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
And thank you. It seems it cannot be corrected enough.
blessings..
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