Right next to the Cathedral Of Our Lady Of The Angels in Los Angeles, built at a cost of nearly $200,000,000.
Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
THX for the ping.
Great job on this thread.
Thanks for this. Very helpful. Awesome research!
“”Let’s not forget the Council of Orange was wonderfully Evangelical and Predestinarian, contray to the modernist Pelagian stand that Rome now holds””
You really ought to read the final conclusion of the Council of Orange and Church fathers before Augustin before making such statements. Calvin picked and chose from a few canons and left out the conclusions
From The Council Of Orange...
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/council.orange.txt
According to the catholic faith we also believe that after
grace has been received through baptism, all baptized persons have the ability and responsibility,IF THEY DESIRE to labor faithfully, to perform with the aid and COOPERATION of Christ what is of essential importance in regard to the salvation of their soul. We not only DO NOT believe that any are foreordained to evil by the power of God, but even state with utter abhorrence that if there are those who want to believe so evil a thing, they are anathema. (Emphasis mine)
Without love faith can indeed exist, but can be of no avail- Saint Clement(De Trin. XV 18, 32).
“Those who are found not living as he taught should know that they are not really Christians, even if his teachings are on their lips, for he said that not those who merely profess but those who also do the works will be saved (cf. Matt. 13:42, 43; 7:15,16,19)” -ST Justin Martyr(The First Apology of Justin, ch.16).
While I think most of the abominations you present should be punished by excommunication, wearing a Barney costume HAS to be a capital crime.
Just sayin’.
Matthew
Briefly, love of God and love of neighbor -- they really do encompass all the commandments. We believe that Church is the surest guide in helping us to cooperate with the grace of God to grow in love. We believe that, in free will, we can reject that grace -- in fact, we do reject it every time we fail and sin. Enough failures can add up to a total rejection.
Thanks Mary for the answer.
I think your understanding is the most common I have seen from Catholics, and pretty much my understanding when I was Catholic
I think Grace needs to be defined because both sides mean different things when they see the word.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Grace for a Catholic is principally divided into two kinds, actual grace (fortifies and strengthens the soul) and sanctifying grace (washes and beautifies the soul).
Grace to a protestant is primarily unmerited favor (undeserved gift) given to those who place their trust for salvation on the work done by Jesus Christ.
In a nutshell protestants see that we can never be good enough to earn salvation. Christ came to save sinners and by His one perfect sacrifice paid our ransom(penalty for sin) in full and by Faith/Trust in Him we become adopted new creations (justified, saved) Sealed until the day of redemption. We must no longer be slaves to sin but Slaves to Righteousness, not to keep what we have, but in Love and obedience to the Saviour.
Rom 4:13For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness." 23But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone, 24but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
The Catholic view sees Christ making it possible for people to save themselves by cooperating with the assistance of actual and sanctifying Graces.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2578704/posts?page=11473#11473
Hmmmm...Is it possible that went over your head?
MetMom:
Nowhere in Scripture are men instructed to claim that Scripture isn’t enough and to add their own traditions to it.
The word *trinity* isn’t found in Scripture and yet [Roman] Catholics are sure quick enough to claim Scriptural backing for it and expect others to recognized and accept it as valid.
The word *pope* isn’t found in Scripture and yet [Roman] Catholics are sure quick enough to claim Scriptural backing for it and expect others to recognized and accept it as valid.
The word *transubstantiation* isn’t found in Scripture and yet [Roman] Catholics are sure quick enough to claim Scriptural backing for it and expect others to recognized and accept it as valid.
The words *immaculate conception* aren’t found in Scripture and yet [Roman] Catholics are sure quick enough to claim Scriptural backing for it and expect others to recognized and accept it as valid.
For that matter, there are lots of [Roman] Catholic teachings that aren’t directly and specifically spelled out which [Roman] Catholics expect others to accept as true and valid.
To not apply the same criteria to *sola Scriptura* is [GROSSLY & OUTRAGEOUSLY] hypocritical.
Jesus never commanded us to add tradition to Scripture and He never, by example, used tradition in addition to Scripture as a point of authority.
Just because God didn’t word something the way [Roman] Catholics think He should have, doesn’t mean that He didn’t get the message across in Scripture, that Scripture alone is adequate for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
And . . . to repeat . . . maybe some of the lurkers who aren’t deaf and blind will see it who missed it earlier:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2578704/posts?page=11624#11624
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
WHEN GOD
HIMSELF, walking Israel's paths 2000 years ago
REPEATEDLY
referred to
"IT IS WRITTEN . . ."
AS HIS
POINT OF AUTHORITY
THEN
DENIAL of that
DECLARATION BY JESUS--CREATOR GOD
IS a
DENIAL OF GOD'S OWN EMPHASES
AND
A DENIAL OF GOD'S OWN PRIORITIES.
God does NOT tend to effect
DENIAL OF HIS PRIORITIES
into a spiritual life & GROWTH activity.
He did not even say:
"DADDY SAYS: . . . "
HE, CREATOR GOD, SAID
"IT IS WRITTEN . . . "
Papal Pontificators' STUBBORN, REBELLIOUS refusal to take those declarations of FINAL AUTHORITY FOR WHAT THEY ARE,
Is yet again a brazen addiction to idolizing an INSTITUTION, a dogma, a magicsterical, another 'Gospel,' . . . something different from and OPPOSED TO GOD'S AUTHORITY.
There's no more charitable way to put the stark horrific truth.
Weasel words about the bureaucratic magicsterical power-mongers will not do.
Appeals to rubber 'Bibles' & rubber histories about Peter and the Vatican before it began in 300-400AD will not do.
The stark TRUTH IS
CREATOR GOD IN PERSON DECLARED
"IT IS WRITTEN . . . "
AS A POINT OF FINAL AUTHORITY.
refusal to take CREATOR GOD'S OWN declarations of what HE HIMSELF appealed to AS THE FINAL AUTHORITY
IS BEYOND SUICIDALLY IGNORANT, REBELLIOUS IDIOTIC & STUPID.
IT IS STUBBORNLY REBELIOUS.
It is sticking an institution's fossilized granite finger in God's eye and insisting that the INSTITUTUION KNOWS BETTER than GOD.
HUBRIS TO THE MAX is an inadequate phrase by many orders of magnitude.
Rome has devolved into blatant paganism, youtube has many more examples. Almost nude priests doing mass, nuns as vestal virgins, devil costumes, etc. And it is very hypocritical for them to post the nonsense they do about other churches who steadfastedly hold to the Word of God as the center of worship. In fact, all their nonsense is exactly what happens when you throw out the Word and make it up in what seems good to man to do— no wonder they dont like Paul, he preached against this very thing-—— strange fire, and God will deal, is dealing, with them.
Right next to the Cathedral Of Our Lady Of The Angels in Los Angeles, built at a cost of nearly $200,000,000.
And not as entertaining. :-)
GOODNESS! God have mercy on us.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Grace for a Catholic is principally divided into two kinds, actual grace (fortifies and strengthens the soul) and sanctifying grace (washes and beautifies the soul).
Grace to a protestant is primarily unmerited favor (undeserved gift) given to those who place their trust for salvation on the work done by Jesus Christ.
Yes, we learned in Baltimore II about "actual grace" and "sanctifying grace" (you left out "sacramental grace"), but I haven't thought in those categories since grammar school; I really think it's more of a logical distinction than anything else -- maybe "modal" would describe it.
In the languages I'm most conversant with (Latin and Hebrew), one word does duty for both "grace" and "favor" -- so the distinction may be peculiar to English.
The Catholic view sees Christ making it possible for people to save themselves by cooperating with the assistance of actual and sanctifying Graces.
Not how I'd word it -- never heard of people "saving themselves." To tell the truth, I find discussions of the "mechanics" of salvation off-putting; In the first place, I don't really think of "salvation" -- I think of God, and I have my "marching orders", summarized as love of God and love of neighbor. I have to make the effort, and it seems irrelevant to try to quantify my efforts (and the effort comes from God, in any case). It also seems to me that the language used, which can be no more than an approximation of a spiritual reality, can come to replace the reality and we can feel that by naming something we actually comprehend it. I don't know how clear that is, but maybe you can figure it out.
What are you talking about?
Hmmmm
Maybe I can’t explain it any better this morning.
Maybe I can say this . . . .
Some of your cohorts
treat the Magicsterical, Catachism, Pope et al
as equal to or superior to Holy Spirit in Holy Spirit’s operations AS Holy Spirit.
OF COURSE there’ll likely be wails and huffs about how that’s not true for this list of pontifical reasons etc. etc. yada yada yada
However, we see the proof of the contrary ACTED OUT ROUTINELY HEREON virtually 24/7.
Actions really do speak louder than words.
I just wish to note . . .
whether in the RCC or any other denomination
INCLUDING PENTECOSTALS who have left their better days in favor of
A FORM OF RELIGION AND GODLINESS
WHILE DENYING THE POWER THEREOF
HOLY SPIRIT WILL HAVE THE LAST WORD.
HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE THE LAST SHOW IN TOWN.
HOLY SPIRIT WILL OUT DRAMA, OUT TRUTH, OUT LOVE, OUT DECLARE, OUT DEMONSTRATE
EVERY OTHER ANYTHING.
IN HIS TIME.
IN GOD’S WAY.
FOR GOD’S PURPOSES.
WHEN HE DOES,
the magicstericals of all denominations will be utterly silent and ashamed.
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