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To: markomalley

You say that the Novus Ordo does not focus on the consecration/presentation of the sacrifice as you put it. Is this added verbiage in the Tridentine Mass?

Our priest in saying a Novus Ordo does focus on the Consecration. It is the center of the Mass for him.


6 posted on 08/22/2010 2:31:04 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
You say that the Novus Ordo does not focus on the consecration/presentation of the sacrifice as you put it. Is this added verbiage in the Tridentine Mass?

Well, I didn't use the word "Consecration" -- you did. Yes, there is a consecration.

However, the oblation of the Victim to God barely exists in the NO.

Here is an English translation of that part of the Roman Canon for the Tridentine Mass:

P. Mindful, therefore, Lord, we, Your ministers, as also Your holy people, of the same Christ, Your Son, our Lord, remember His blessed passion, and also of His Resurrection from the dead, and finally of His glorious Ascension into heaven, offer to Your supreme Majesty, of the gifts bestowed upon us, the pure + Victim, the holy + Victim, the all-perfect + Victim: the holy + Bread of life eternal and the Chalice + of perpetual salvation.

P. Deign to regard with gracious and kindly attention and hold acceptable, as You deigned to accept the offerings of Abel, Your just servant, and the sacrifice of Abraham our Patriarch, and that which Your chief priest Melchisedech offered to You, a holy Sacrifice and a spotless victim.

P. Most humbly we implore You, Almighty God, bid these offerings to be brought by the hands of Your Holy Angel to Your altar above, before the face of Your Divine Majesty. And may those of us who by sharing in the Sacrifice of this altar shall receive the Most Sacred + Body and + Blood of Your Son, be filled with every grace and heavenly blessing, Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Here is the corresponding part from the EP I from the NO Mass:

Father, we celebrate the memory of Christ, your Son. We, your people and your ministers, recall his passion, his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into glory; and from the many gifts you have given us we offer to you, God of glory and majesty, this holy and perfect sacrifice: the bread of life and the cup of eternal salvation.

Look with favor on these offerings and accept them as once you accepted the gifts of your servant Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the bread and wine offered by your priest Melchisedech.

Almighty God, we pray that your angel may take this sacrifice to your altar in heaven. Then, as we receive from this altar the sacred body and blood of your Son,

let us be filled with every grace and blessing. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

You will note that EP 1 maintains the same basic structure, although the translation is faulty. (This should be largely corrected on 11/26/2010) The reason why it is the same structure is that it is, essentially, the same prayer.

Unfortunately, around these parts, EP 1 is not used very often.

Here is what passes for the oblation in EP 2:

In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup. We thank you for counting us worthy to stand in your presence and serve you. May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit.

Pretty minimal on the subject of oblation, isn't it? (BTW, the new translation helps, but not very much)

Here's the problem: EP 2 is the Eucharistic Prayer most often used for the consecration. At least around these parts. Not just for weekday Masses, but for Holy Days as well.

EP 3 is a little better...

Father, calling to mind the death your Son endured for our salvation, his glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven, and ready to greet him when he comes again, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice.

Look with favor on your Church's offering, and see the Victim whose death has reconciled us to yourself. Grant that we, who are nourished by his body and blood, may be filled with his Holy Spirit, and become one body, one spirit in Christ.

Better than EP 2 (IMHO) but not nearly as good as EP 1 (particularly after 11/26/2011).

Fortunately EP 3 is used...but not nearly as often as EP 2.

Finally, we have EP 4:

Father, we now celebrate this memorial of our redemption. We recall Christ's death, his descent among the dead, his resurrection, and his ascension to your right hand; and, looking forward to his coming in glory, we offer you his body and blood, the acceptable sacrifice which brings salvation to the whole world.

Lord, look upon this sacrifice which you have given to your Church; and by your Holy Spirit, gather all who share this bread and wine into the one body of Christ, a living sacrifice of praise.

Now, you will note some definite oblative language in EP 4, as well as EP 3.

But there is a problem with both of these Eucharistic Prayers (in my humble opinion...which, along with $5, will buy you a cup of Starbucks): both EP 3 and EP 4 mix confusing language in with the oblation that masks what is happening. Both of them talk about the resurrection and ascension.

Nothing wrong with talking about the resurrection and the ascension: in fact during the Communicates, the topic is brought up. BUT...that is the communicates and this is the oblation. There is a difference.

To catch this, you must remember that the Mass is a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Christ the Victim by Christ the High Priest. It was pre-figured by the Old Testament blood sacrifices. And it is also played out in Heaven.

During the OT sacrifices, the victim was immolated and then was offered to God. And the priest pleaded with God to accept the offering of that victim. Not really any other discussion.

But in EP 3 & 4, this purpose gets all confused. In the Roman Canon (EP 1)...it is very, very clear. Particularly when the priest is facing the high altar.

FWIW

10 posted on 08/22/2010 6:55:55 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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