[wideawake]

I'm surprised to see a gutless wonder like yourself critiquing the guts of others.

you should leave your mom's basement and try talking to a girl sometime.

[WILLIALAL]

I'm not bashing Catholics with this, but I am just wondering if the Catholic Bishops would be this accommodating if the majority of illegals were evangelical Christians.

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?

Same reason as the Democrats, to increase their membership.

[Arthur McGowan]

Because many of the bishops and priests are nothing but Democrats—Progressives—Commies—who use their clerical status as a platform to promote what they really think is important: Leftism.

[Claud]

I'm surprised you guys have the guts to show up around here with the unabashed support of the Catholic Church for the illegal invasion.

Don't be surprised. I don't support it, and "the Church" doesn't either, the opinions of some bishops notwithstanding.

[NYer]

Many catholics are equally divided on the question of illegal immigration. For a better understanding of the Catholic Church's position, it would be necessary to delve into historical precedents. For example:

Chapter II
Reflections in the Light of the Word of God and Catholic Social Teaching

Migration in the Light of the Word of God
22. The word of God and the Catholic social teaching it inspires illuminate an understanding–one that is ultimately full of hope–that recognizes the lights and shadows that are a part of the ethical, social, political, economic, and cultural dimensions of migrations between our two countries. The word of God and Catholic social teaching also bring to light the causes that give rise to migrations, as well as the consequences that they have on the communities of origin and destination.

23. These lights and shadows are seen in faith as part of the dynamics of creation and grace on the one hand, and of sin and death on the other, that form the backdrop of all salvation history.

Old Testament
24. Even in the harsh stories of migration, God is present, revealing himself. Abraham stepped out in faith to respond to God's call (Gn 12:1). He and Sarah extended bounteous hospitality to three strangers who were actually a manifestation of the Lord, and this became a paradigm for the response to strangers of Abraham's descendants. The grace of God even broke through situations of sin in the forced migration of the children of Jacob: Joseph, sold into slavery, eventually became the savior of his family (Gn 37:45)–a type of Jesus, who, betrayed by a friend for thirty pieces of silver, saves the human family.

25. The key events in the history of the Chosen People of enslavement by the Egyptians and of liberation by God led to commandments regarding strangers (Ex 23:9; Lv 19:33). Israel's conduct with the stranger is both an imitation of God and the primary, specific Old Testament manifestation of the great commandment to love one's neighbor: "For the Lord, your God, is the . . . Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who has no favorites, accepts no bribes, who executes justice for the orphan and widow, and befriends the alien, feeding and clothing him. So you, too, must befriend the alien, for you were once aliens yourselves in the land of Egypt" (Dt 10:17-19). For the Israelites, these injunctions were not only personal exhortations: the welcome and care of the alien were structured into their gleaning and tithing laws (Lv 19:9-10; Dt 14:28-29).

New Testament
26. Recalling the migration of the Chosen People from Egypt, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph themselves were refugees in Egypt: "Out of Egypt I called my son" (Mt 2:15). From this account the Holy Family has become a figure with whom Christian migrants and refugees throughout the ages can identify, giving them hope and courage in hard times.

St. Matthew also describes the mysterious presence of Jesus in the migrants who frequently lack food and drink and are detained in prison (Mt 25:35-36). The "Son of Man" who "comes in his glory" (Mt 25:31) will judge his followers by the way they respond to those in such need: "Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me" (Mt 25:40).

27. The Risen Christ commanded his apostles to go to all nations to preach his message and to draw all people through faith and baptism into the life of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Mt 28:16-20). The Risen Christ sealed this command through the sending of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-21). The triumph of grace in the Resurrection of Christ plants hope in the hearts of all believers, and the Spirit works in the Church to unite all peoples of all races and cultures into the one family of God (Eph 2:17-20).

The Holy Spirit has been present throughout the history of the Church to work against injustice, division, and oppression and to bring about respect for individual human rights, unity of races and cultures, and the incorporation of the marginalized into full life in the Church. In modern times, one of the ways this work of the Spirit has been manifested is through Catholic social teaching, in particular the teachings on human dignity and the principle of solidarity.

Read More

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[bboop]

Yawn .... Catholic bashing. Nothing new under the sun.

[TheBattman]

Lest we forget, the Catholic Church was the first to prosthelytize Central and South America. Never mind that Catholicism in many of those areas was just incorporated into the tribal religions...

The Catholic Church then very much misuses Leviticus 19:33-34, taking it completely out of context to justify harboring illegal aliens.

Thing is - that passage is specifically addressed to Israel, and is meant as a way to treat visitors - those who are present on legitimate and legal business. Remember, Israel was called out to be a peculiar people to show their God to the world - His might, and His perfection. Many from other lands who came to Israel on legitimate business were mistreated, and ripped off in business.

[dagogo redux]

My wife’s Catholic. She’s always trying to get me to convert, and, although there are some compelling aspects of her faith, this is certainly not one of them.

That this cause is so strongly supported by the Catholic Church that they would clearly endorse and support illegal behavior simply doesn’t make sense to me except in the cynical light of concerns about membership and income.

[MountainDad]

I'm a Catholic. Was an alter boy and all that.(No snide comments, please)

I wonder the same thing.....

[Claud]

Note these comments by Archbishop Chaput:

“The Catholic Church respects the law, including immigration law. We respect those men and women who have the difficult job of enforcing it. We do not encourage or help anyone to break the law. We believe Americans have a right to solvent public institutions, secure borders and orderly regulation of immigration.

But we can’t ignore people in need, and we won’t be quiet about laws that don’t work — or that, in their “working,” create impossible contradictions and suffering. Despite all of the heated public argument over the past few years, Americans still find themselves stuck with an immigration system that adequately serves no one. We urgently need the kind of immigration reform that will address our economic and security needs, but will also regularize the status of the many decent undocumented immigrants who help our society to grow. A new Congress and a new president now serve in Washington. They have an extraordinary opportunity to act quickly and justly to solve this problem. “

Maybe most here will disagree with The Archbishop for seemingly favoring “amnesty”. But look at what he’s also saying. People NEED TO RESPECT THE LAW. The Church does NOT condone breaking the law, and the American people have a right to economic integrity and security.

More here:

http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33837

[markomalley]

One other point, short of the doctrinal issue.

Do you support the open borders policy of the US for the past 50 years or so...no effective border security?

Do you support the 14th Amendment language creating the anchor-baby situation?

Do you support the fact that on the occasional raid done for political purposes only the employees are busted? How many employers of illegal aliens are thrown into jail for long jail terms?

Do you support governments at all levels closing their eyes to day laborer gathering points? Do you support the fact that those who pick up the day laborers are not punished for doing so? (Not only for hiring people who are not legally able to work but also for tax evasion as well)

If you suspect that a restaurant is using illegals in the kitchen, do you walk out of it?

Would you refuse to buy a home that might have been constructed using illegals as laborers?

What constructive acts have you taken locally to make sure that your local government doesn't facilitate them where you live?

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Yes, the illegal aliens are criminals and need to be dealt with accordingly. But if you honestly look at it, the government, businesses, and consumers have all really facilitated creating a magnet that draws them here.

If no employer would hire them because the employer knew that the price of getting caught hiring an illegal was a jail sentence, I bet that the illegal alien problem would quickly dry up and go away.

But that's not likely to happen any time soon...because the government is not likely to do so any time soon, are they?

And the government is not likely to take serious steps to seal up the border to make it impossible to cross (either from the north or the south), are they?

[Mad Dawg]

As to “what’s up?” What’s up is the minute bishops take one step outside of their prescribed duties they immediately act like bozos.

AS to the number of Catholic illegales, a lot of non-Catholic groups make great inroads and a WHOLE lot of immigrants are functionally unchurched in their home countries. So I’m afraid it’s more a matter of bishops being dumb than of anything else.

[Salvation]

Nothing here -- move on!

[markomalley]

See, the bishops you hear from the most in the media are the ones who agree with the media's open border policy.

The Mahoneys, the McCarricks, and so on.

There are Catholic bishops...and not a few of them...who acknowledge the problem.

Archbishop Gomez, the new coadjutor archbishop of Los Angeles, has written:

He also notes that the millions of immigrants have violated U.S. immigration and that this makes law-abiding Americans angry.

“And it should,” he writes.

Archbishop Chaput, the Archbishop of Denver, has said,

You're right. People do -- one of the issues that's raised at the beginnings of these discussions is these people who come here illegally have broken the law, and that's not appropriate.

And, of course, the church agrees with them: Breaking the law is never appropriate. And being an illegal alien is not good for the person who breaks the law, nor is it good for our country. It's a dangerous way to live. And to have a group in our society that isn't legal undermines the common good, too.

So the church is not in favor of illegal immigration. The church is not in favor of breaking the law.

Tulsa's Bishop Slattery has stated,

However in recent years, the federal government has neither protected the sovereignty of our borders, nor has it provided a realistic means for workers to enter the country legally. Instead it has allowed millions of immigrants to enter the country illegally for the sake of our economy; while leaving it to state and local governments to deal with the resultant chaos of millions of valuable workers who have no legal identity, no automobile insurance (and are unable to obtain it), no health coverage (with no funds to pay for it) and no means of acquiring legal residency.

And I could continue on.

The fact of the matter is that the bishops' words are sound-byted to meet the agenda of the media. While there some (too many) who are vehemently pro open-border, there are a select few who get all the airtime.

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One other point: the idea that the bishops are supporting illegal immigration because it will swell the number of Catholics in the country is laughable in its lunacy.

Illegals have no money. They are not in a position to provide endowments or even in a position to make any kind of a sizable contribution in the weekly collection basket.

If they choose to send their kids to Catholic schools...they will have to be massively subsidized at the expense of those of us who do actually contribute a decent amount. If they use Catholic hospitals, chances are they will have to receive the treatments gratis...again at the cost of those of us who pay or those who endow the hospitals. If they use Catholic social services, do you think they pay for them?

Sure, population might be increased...but the dioceses would go broke in a heartbeat. (Amidst the lawsuit frenzy that is going on now, they are going broke enough anyway)

If the bishops had a nefarious plot, they would try to recruit rich immigrants, not dirt poor ones.

[Prokopton]

So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?

I'm curious. What religious denomination has come out officially against helping illegal aliens or even against amnesty?

[throwabrick]

“So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?”

My friend, if you have proof of the Catholic Church (in totality) or just locally aiding and abetting lawbreakers... should you not report it?!

[throwabrick]

““Then give to Caesar what is Caesar, but give to God what is God’s.” (Mat 22:15-21)

I’m surprised you guys have the guts to show up around here with the unabashed support of the Catholic Church for the illegal invasion.

Last Sunday, Assumption Day, there was a parade here complete with Mexican Flags and Aztec dancers headed to the local Catholic Church.

So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?”

****

I’d agree with you, if you said “some people” in the “Catholic Church”. Particularly “some” bishops.

This “radical” support of the “illegal INVASION” is not unique to “just” “some” Catholics and Catholic Bishops.
You have “other” churches and members just as involved in this “illegal INVASION”!

So... what is the story? Or wuzzup wid dat?

I like your use of the word “invasion”. For that is exactly what it is!

[Tax-chick]

I could speculate about what drives a person to just up and try to agitate others, unsolicited and unprovoked, but Congressman Billybob has died, and I’d rather think about his great writing and his truly substantial contributions to our country, and his truly gentlemanly spirit.

We need more like him. Did I mention he was a gentleman?