Posted on 08/20/2010 6:30:58 PM PDT by GunsAndBibles
“Then give to Caesar what is Caesar, but give to God what is God’s.” (Mat 22:15-21)
I'm surprised you guys have the guts to show up around here with the unabashed support of the Catholic Church for the illegal invasion.
Last Sunday, Assumption Day, there was a parade here complete with Mexican Flags and Aztec dancers headed to the local Catholic Church.
So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?
Please assist in prayer that it happens. :-) Also, do read FReeper markomalley’s excellent post #47.
Many of these “Princes” of the Church are so entrenched.
If bankrupting Archdioceses from lawsuits because of pedophilic and abusive priests wasn’t enough which happened under their watch. They are still here espousing more of their “social justice”, “liberation philosophy”.
They knew this *hit was going on.
They also have the “bully” pulpit from which to propagandize their flock. Hey if the Cardinal says it’s the Word of God or from the Bible, who am I to argue with him?
The fact is, it is not in the Bible. It’s either taken out of context or twisted to mean what they want it to mean.
When enough parishoners wake up and pass on the collection plate... then maybe!?
Here’s a U.S.Conference of Catholic Bishops press release which is a falsehood. Profiling? Wasn’t that strictly prohibited?
USCCB News Release
10-144
July 29, 2010
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
USCCB Migration Chairman Lauds Court Decision Regarding Arizona SB 1070, Urges Comprehensive Immigration Reform
WASHINGTON— As chairman of the U.S. bishops’ Committee on Migration, Bishop John C. Wester of Salt Lake City applauded the July 28 decision by U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton to halt some of the most controversial provisions of Arizona SB 1070 from going into effect the next day. Bishop Wester lamented the status quo on immigration as “unacceptable” and called for the Federal government to act immediately on immigration reform.
“It is the right decision,” Bishop Wester said. “Any law that provides legal cover to profiling affects all members of our communities, including legal residents and citizens. It is a very slippery slope. What is needed now is for Congress and the Administration to live up to their responsibilities and address this issue by passing immigration reform.”
The U.S. Catholic bishops believe that any comprehensive immigration reform bill should contain the following elements: a legalization program that gives migrant workers and their families an opportunity to earn legal permanent residency and eventual citizenship; a new worker visa program that protects the labor rights of both U.S. and foreign workers and gives participants the option to earn permanent residency; reform of the U.S. family-based immigration system to reduce waiting times for family reunification; and restoration of due process protections for immigrants, including asylum-seekers. In the longer term, policies that address the root causes of migration, such as the lack of sustainable development in sending nations, should also be part of the equation.
I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church for not caving in to the homosexual pressure groups, and for the licks it has taken because of it.
I also understand the need to minister to God’s children, all of them.
I will pray that God gives your bishops the wisdom to focus on their duties as priests - and refrain from entering the secular political arena.
Don’t these guys ever get called on the carpet in Rome?
Hey, I'd be all for it, IF they were migrant workers. Problem is, they're here and they're staying. Let go home and then migrate back.
“Don’t these guys ever get called on the carpet in Rome?”
That’s not the way the John PaulII or Pope Benedict are handling it. They change the hierarchy by attrition and doing due diligence in promoting men that are not as radical. As long as it is not against the Faith these Cardinals are pretty much a law unto themselves. The Pope could ask them to step down - vow of obedience. Thank God they have a mandatory retirement age.
Look at chicago where Cardinal Francis can’t do anything with that loudmouth, liberation theology, social justice activist, Father Phleger.
That’s what these activist bishops do.
Typical left-wing tactic of changing the subject (migrant vs. illegal) or leave things out... like what gives an invading army of 11 to 20 million ILLEGALS the right to legal status.
Lie.
Change the subject.
Omit.
Attack opposition by name calling.
I don’t have any love for these liberal anti-American priest’s.
Can anyone tell me the difference between “legal status” and “amnesty” when they use the first term “legal status” are they not just avoiding to use the term “amnesty”?
11 to 20 million or more people, some who are criminals, mostly illiterate.
Are we suicidal to accept this?
+1
Perfect answer. What are all the rest of these posts about?
I could speculate about what drives a person to just up and try to agitate others, unsolicited and unprovoked, but Congressman Billybob has died, and I’d rather think about his great writing and his truly substantial contributions to our country, and his truly gentlemanly spirit.
We need more like him. Did I mention he was a gentleman?
You are absolutely right on that. And the Catholic Church's direct role in that is truly embarrassing to me and to most other Catholics who are (a) aware of that role and (b) actually believe what is Catholic doctrine. That role is through the "Catholic" Campaign for Human Development (CCHD). If you really want to get ticked off at the Catholic Church...and rightfully so, look at this excellent video by Michael Voris (it's about an hour long). (BTW, Michael Voris is a faithful Catholic, not some outsider spewing lies)
With that, it must also be said that there are signs that this is changing, albeit slowly. With the efforts of Catholics like pyro and other Catholic FReepers, as well as other conservative Catholics, a magnifying glass is being kept on CCHD and more and more their nefarious efforts are being shown the light of day. There are some dioceses that refuse to participate in CCHD -- that number increases with time each year. And actual pressure is being placed on the bishops to de-fund more and more organizations from CCHD. And, frankly, most of the bishops responsible for it are dying off...being replaced with more orthodox bishops. I think that it will go the way of the dinosaur.
But back to your question. You characterize it as an invasion and as a threat. It is.
Were the vast majority of these people invaders, hell bent upon destroying this country, before they came up here?
How about Italians, Irish, Polish, Chinese, Bohemians, Germans, and all the other waves of immigrants? See, when they were new upon this country...they were accused of the same thing.
But, but, but...they were all legal!!!
True. But if you think about it, there really wasn't much of an immigration law back then, was there? Have the ship pull up to an immigration station, go through a nominal identity and health check...and hit the streets.
And a lot of them settled in ghettos. (Where do you think the expression "little Italy", "Chinatown," etc., came from). Living in hovels, working for miniscule wages, and so on. But likely a lot better off than they would have been back home.
Then suppose some "community organizers" get ahold of them and tell them if they organize, they can get for themselves political power. For a historical perspective, look up Tammany Hall.
Meanwhile, you have groups who are concerned about the impact that they have on society (remember, we're talking about the Irish, Italians, and Poles still). So they form groups. At this point you may wish to look up the "Know Nothing Party." Or the "American Protective Association."
Were there Irish gangs? Yes. Were there German gangs? Yes. Were there Italian gangs (a/k/a the cosa nostra)? Yes. Does that mean that every person with Irish, German, Italian blood should be viewed suspiciously? I don't think so.
Now fast forward a few decades. You have stories of milk and honey across the border. Rather than having to save up money for a ship, they have to save up money to pay a coyote.
Yes, they are doing something illegal. But suppose their friends who went before them tell them that it is not a real problem...and the coyotes tell them that it is not a real problem...and they see the dollars flowing to neighbors who have family in "el norte."
Are these people sophisticated? Likely not. Are these people gullible? Probably.
So they settle in ghettos where they can be understood and where they can actually participate in commerce.
And where it is easier for Saul Alinsky community organizers to get at them.
They have messages that the yanquis have stolen land from them, that the yanquis are enslaving them, that all the world's woes are due to the yanquis. (Is that not the basic Saul Alinsky message after all?)
Not only from community organizers, but from the MSM, from the schools their children go to, and so on.
Think about the impact of the MSM on native born Americans (who should, by right, be far more sophisticated than some uneducated peon from a very poor slum in a third world city or some village in a third world county). How gullible are most Americans to media influence? Suppose you have the same MSM running Spanish-language programming that may, for all I know, be more radical than the crap they feed us?
And think about the left-wing subversive messaging that the schools put out to native-born kids. Do you realistically think that schools will put out a more patriotic message to kids in a "bi-lingual" school?
The point is that I don't deny any of the concerns you have with Azatlan or anything else. But I truly wonder how many illegals are bringing that with them and how many of them are actually being trained into that by our own radical left after they get here?
Again, let me say that I am not claiming that these people are innocent as the wind-driven snow. I am not claiming that there are not some ringers who come up here for nefarious purposes. I am certainly not saying that there is no criminal activity. I am not saying that these people are not used as mules to bring in drugs. I am not saying that there are not arab terrorists making the border crossing with the "hispanics."
But then you go back to step #1 of my plan: secure the border and modify posse comitatus to allow the military to take an active role in it.
And then step 2: eliminate the magnet that is drawing them here by striking the magnet, not the iron filings that are being drawn to the magnet.
However, you will have noticed that knowledgeable Catholics (like most FReeper Catholics, I daresay) make a (wincing) distinction between "stuff American Bishops say" and "the doctrines of the Catholic Church."
That may seem maddeningly equivocating, and again, I don't blame you for finding it so. But the fact is, the American Bishops --- as a generality, there are exceptions --- have been unwilling to teach or enforce Catholic doctrine in a comprehensive way for most of our lifetimes, and we've become almost jaded to it.
It is truly sandalous, and damaging, to see the distance between "what they say" and "Catholic doctrine." For a good, refreshing dose of doctrine, you go to the Catechism (online link, and worth looking at) and find clarity like this:
| Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens. |
But we can't even get the bishops to obey to obey Canon Law, e.g. Canon 915 (onlike link, again worth looking at), which forbids the distribution of Holy Communion to those in manifest grave sin (e.g. political accomplices to abortion and sodomy.) Though lay activists are trying to admonish or shame the bishops into doing their job.
Good doctrine, bad discipline.
If you look at the whole history of the Church, the history of the Jews -- the Old Testament is very realistic about this ---, the whole history of the human race, your own (or I should say, "my own") personal history, you see a lot of that. Damn straight. Lord have mercy (40x)
Here's an example of what I've been trying to convey to my own Bishop about this illegal immigration thing. (I beg your patience: another link.)
(Is this what you were thinking of, AnAmericanMother?)
What I have a HUGE problem with is what they don’t say and how they mischaracterize this “invasion” and its effects on our American culture and its effect on law, on order, respect for this country and a balance of power shift that in effect can victimize native Americans and put them into second class status.
You are absolutely right on that. And the Catholic Church’s direct role in that is truly embarrassing to me and to most other Catholics who are (a) aware of that role and (b) actually believe what is Catholic doctrine. That role is through the “Catholic” Campaign for Human Development (CCHD). If you really want to get ticked off at the Catholic Church...and rightfully so, look at this excellent video by Michael Voris (it’s about an hour long). (BTW, Michael Voris is a faithful Catholic, not some outsider spewing lies)
bump and mark.
My most favorite Catholic and best thinker I know!
It's a wolves-in-shepherds' clothing gambit: in fact the USCCB has no canonical or magisterial authority even over individual bishops, let alone over all Catholics in the United States. But most people, including most Catholics, and emphatically most of the media, don't realize that.
And yes, Catholics, though you don't have any control over USCCB politics, it's paid for by YOU, via assessments on your diocese.
This is a scandalous situation which has been building since, as I understand it, 1917, beginning with what was then called the National Catholic War Council, to support the U.S. servicemen and their families in WWI. It then morphed into the National Catholic Welfare Council, which added the postwar tasks of aiding war refugees and immigrants (legal ones!) and opposing, for instance, Communism. So far, so good, mostly.
But as bureaucracies do, it grew and grew. Then, puffy with post-Vatican-II-optimism, it reorganized in 1966 into the NCCB/USCC, a multi-armed conjoined twin of a group, with churchy-justicey committees stuffed with clericalized laity and laicized clergy. And then it shape-shifted in 2001 into the monstrosity it now is, USCCB, a near-complete captive of its liberal staffers.
(I worked for them over 20 years ago in a very lowly munchkin job with the Pro-Life Office, which is one of the more decent offices: really, it is; but I saw an eyeful, meh!)
Judie Brown, a devout Catholic and pro-life activist, called for the complete elimination of the USCCB in her 2007 book Saving Those Damned Catholics which you can get, used, for under five bucks from Amazon!
You might be interested in my remarks at #93
Wonderful post. I will refer people to your link on this whenever we are questioned about the Bishops response vs. the Catholic response to illegal immigration.
I have been quoting Archbishop Gomez, not the Archbishop in Los Angeles, who became a naturalized citizen, by doing it the right way. Going through the naturalization steps, taking the test, and becoming a naturalized citizen. But people, in general, don’t buy his story and say he will be soft on immigrants. I don’t think so. I think he will ask them to follow his example and do it the RIGHT way!
Bears repeating.
That is one reason why I question anything coming out from the USCCB or, for that matter, coming out from any chancery...and am as willing as I am to give bishops a break. I think a lot of them are being ill-advised by Alinskyites who have a large control on what the bishop sees and hears.
And, in fact, that is why it is as rare as it is that you will ever see me post something from the "Catholic News Service" (the media arm of the USCCB...run by a left winger).
It's a wolves-in-shepherds' clothing gambit: in fact the USCCB has no canonical or magisterial authority even over individual bishops, let alone over all Catholics in the United States.
That is not exactly 100% true. A licitly erected bishops' conference is discussed in Can 447-459 and has a juridic personality (Can 449§2) and Canon 455 discusses where the conference can legislate. It is very limited...but it does exist (for example they have a number of areas of responsibility in localizing liturgy). (It should be noted that the legislation of a bishops' conference must be ratified by the Apostolic See...but that is an issue of ratification...not writing the particular law for the area).
It is true that every secular policy decision has a moral component, upon which the bishops have an obligation to teach. But that moral component is embedded in a whole network of prudential considerations, (e.g. does "Help the poor illegal Mexican day-laborers" mean "Help them all get jobs right here in Johnson City"? "Help them all go on welfare"? Or "Help them be treated with every kindness and consideration on their way back to Mexico"?)---
And everything that involves the exercise of political power is the proper sphere of the laity, not the clergy.
And now, "comprehensive immigration reform"! After the USCCB did such a good job with health care!
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