The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments? [Ecumenical]

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[Salvation]

The Catholic Church
Changed The Ten Commandments?

  

 

 

Real Audio Lessons on this Topic

Commandment 1
Commandments 2-3
Commandment 4, 6, & 9
Commandments 5, 7, 8, 10

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.

Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:

Most common Protestant listing:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet

Latin Catholic listing:

Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods

So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?

Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here. Here's how the relevant portion of Exodus 20 reads:

2	I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3	Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
4	Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5	Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6	And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7	Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8	Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9	Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10	But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11	For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12	Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13	Thou shalt not kill. 1
14	Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15	Thou shalt not steal.
16	Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17	Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

So we have 16 verses and Ten Commandments (this we know because of Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 which speak of the "Ten Words" of God). How to group these verses and Commands? Here's how different groups have handled this:   

	Verses Grouped Together
Counted as Commandment #	Jewish	Latin Catholic, Lutheran	Eastern Catholic, Orthodox, Most Protestant
1	2 (commandment to believe)	3, 4, 5, 6	3
2	3, 4, 5, 6	7	4, 5, 6
3	7	8, 9, 10, 11	7
4	8, 9, 10, 11	12	8, 9, 10, 11
5	12	13	12
6	13	14	13
7	14	15	14
8	15	16	15
9	16	17a (commandment against lust)	16
10	17	17b (commandment against greed)	17

When the Commandments are listed, they are often listed in short-hand form, such that, for ex., verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 concerning the Sabbath become simply "Remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy." Because Latin Catholics group 3, 4, 5 and 6 together as all pertaining to the concept "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," we are accused of having "dropped" the commandment against idols. That Eastern Catholics list the Commandments differently never enters the equation for people who think this way; they are simply against those they probably call the "Romish popers" and that's that (I hope it doesn't bother them that Jews would accuse them of totally forgetting the First Commandment, or that Latin Catholics could accuse some Protestants of skipping lightly over the commandments against lust. And why don't the Protestants who have a problem with our numbering system go after the Lutherans for the same thing, anyway?).

Bottom line:

• chapter and verse numbering in the Bible came about in the Middle Ages
   

• the Catholic Church (which includes Eastern Catholics, too) has two different numbering systems for the Commandments given, one agreeing with the most common Protestant enumeration;
   

• the Latin Church's numbering is the most common in the Catholic Church and is the one referred to by Protestants who, ignoring Eastern Catholic Churches, accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped a Commandment;
   

• no Commandment has been dropped, in any case, but the Latin Church's shorthand for the Commandments looks different than the typical Protestant version because of how the Commandments are grouped;
   

• everyone knows how to find Exodus 20 in the Bible, anyway -- even us stoopid Latin Catholics; and
   

• we don't care how they are grouped together; we only care that they are understood and obeyed -- not because we are under the Old Testament Moral and Ceremonial Law with its legalism and non-salvific ritual (we aren't!), but because we are to obey God as children of the New Covenant, whose moral law includes the Two Great Commandments (to love God and to love our neighbor) which surpass the Decalogue, and whose Sacraments surpass empty ritual, being media of grace.

Footnote:
¹ The Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate (the official Scripture of the Church), and the original Douay-Reims phrase the Fifth Word as "Thou shalt not murder"; later Douay-Reims versions, such as the Challoner, and the King James Bible, etc., phrase it as "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not murder," however, is the original intent and the meaning of the earliest texts. Catholics, of course, have 2,000 years of Church teaching and the Magisterium to interpret Scripture, and the meaning of the Fifth Commandment is that one is not to take innocent life. It doesn't entail pacifism, ignoring the needs of self-defense and justice, worrying about squashing bugs, etc.

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Further Reading

The Catechism of the Catholic Church: Section on the Ten Commandments

[rwa265]

It’s really not all that confusing. http://www.yourdictionary.com/ makes it very clear.

Latria - that worship which is due to God alone.

Hyperdulia - special veneration of the Virgin Mary.

Dulia - veneration given to angels and saints.

While I have never heard anyone say they hyperdulia Mary, neither have I heard anyone say they latria God or dulia angels and saints. I have heard any number of people say they give special veneration to Mary, though.

[Uri’el-2012]

Here is the question:

Where in YHvH's Holy Word did YHvH or Yah'shua
His salvation change the YHvH commanded
Sabbath from Shabbat to the Pagan Sunday ?
Please answer the question.

In the absence a scriptural reply
I can only assume that there is none.

This would suggest that Paganism
of the fourth century was incorporated
and promulgated by Constantine at Nicea,

The Holy Word of G-d was rejected and
replaced with Paganism.

As Nicea is the origin of the Roman "church"

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Lera]

This is when it was officially changed

The Council of Laodicea in Phrygia Pacatiana 364A.D.

And here is the canon that proclaimed that change

CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

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No where in the New Testament do we have one instance of the Apostles worshiping on Sunday , no where do they say that the day of worship should be changed to Sunday.

Even Luke the Evangelist (the gentile who wrote Luke and Acts) preached the Gospel in the on the Sabbath to the congregation.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

From the very beginning we are told

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The seventh day , not the first day .

When Moses is given the 10 Commandments in Exodus we are told again which day is blessed.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Again this is the seventh day , not the first day.

Even Jesus tells us that if we love him we will keep his commandments.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Do you not think that if God wanted us to change the day he would have told us clearly ?

[Hegewisch Dupa]

no no no - don’t be sorry for one second - clever responses are sadly too rare in this forum, and I’m damned glad to see one, regardless of whether I’m on the wrong side of it or not - bless ya!

[Lera]

Thank you for the scripture.

See post 103 I forgot to add you to the ping

[mlizzy]

Wonder what the odds would be of you being here and Stevie Nicks being here, at the same time? lol!

Odds would be slim indeed! A couple decades ago I had a recurrence of an inner ear "gift" that eventually took my hearing away. So while I still technically have 10% in one ear only (other one is deaf), and wear a digital aid, Stevie Nicks now sounds like an airplane overhead, or a car crash, or a wash machine, depending on the day.:) That has been the worst part of losing my hearing; not being able to hear a few of my favorites. I can still make out Gregorian Chant kicked up high, so that's replaced Stevie and another favorite Roy Orbison (what a voice!). If you ever are in Chicago, Illinois, and want to hear some wonderful Gregorian Chant, you can join me at a Traditional Latin Mass (just to hear the music, of course). It's beautiful.

[small voice in the wilderness]

I’m so sorry about your hearing loss. But the beauty the eyes can take in makes up, in part. Illinois is not a place I’ve ever visited. My husband and I usually do the east coast, visiting kids and his family. By the time we finish there, vacation time is usually UP! Is this a picture of your Church? MY! We lived for years in Virginia, so our Christmas is of the Williamsburg variety. Very beautiful, too, in its simplicity. If you’ve never been there, it is truly worth the trip! Especially at Christmas.

[Salvation]

Please remember that this is an ecumenical thread. No antagonism.

[Salvation]

Please remember that this is an ecumenical thread. No antagonism. No belittling another’s beliefs.

[Salvation]

Please remember that this is an Ecumenical thread — no antagonism, please.

[small voice in the wilderness]

Oh, thank you Salvation for that reminder as I had completely forgotten about the Thread, since that was about 7 HOURS AGO..

[Salvation]

Maybe I need to have it locked then, if people cannot follow the guidelines.

Guidelines are good, aren’t they, even after seven hours?

I didn’t know the Religion Moderator changed the guidelines in that time frame.

[blackpacific]

It was an honest question about what the Pope was doing in the photo, why is that antagonistic?