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To: kosta50; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Diamond; xzins; TXnMA; shibumi
He [Jefferson] was so open minded that he was accused even of being atheist.

Yes. By those who were angered by his advocacy of religious freedom and the consequent loss of their sinecure. “They wish it to be believed that he can have no religion who advocates its freedom.”

Jefferson rewrote the New Testament and rejected Paul. he even declared "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."

So, what?

You refuse to admit that he [Jefferson] rejected Paul and that he rejected Jesus as divine. Maybe you do too, but somehow you consider yourself a "Christian."

It’s irrelevant. Jefferson was commissioned to sum up the spirit of the Revolutionary Generation, and did it so well that his words have become as one with that spirit. The topic is “Two Revolutions, Two Views of Man” and Jefferson’s writing perfectly describes one of those views.

I can appreciate Jesus' morality and Christian values without being a Christian.

Proving what, with respect to the topic?

Jesus never said that.” [Jefferson’s advice to his namesake]

Did not Jesus admonish us to keep the commandments? (Matthew 19:17) And so did Jefferson advise his namesake. Further: “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)

He [Jefferson] was a deist and deism is not Christianity.

Jefferson knew Christianity very well, and so thoroughly that he described himself a Christian. Your vehement protests changes not a whit of it.

Is there any evidence that he [Paine] changed his mind?

Contrast Paine’s work of 1776 with that of 1794. You don’t see a difference? The Revolutionary Generation saw a difference, and Paine went from one of the most celebrated men in American to dying in disgrace and disdain.

Blowing smoke. I asked you to show me where in the Document . . .

Blowing smoke yourself. I’ve explained the Founders’ attitude about it and you cannot seem to bring yourself to accept that. If you can’t agree, then fine, don’t agree. Just don’t insist I repeat myself until you get the answer you want.

What attack?

Paine’s Age of Reason is nothing but a relentless attack on Christianity.

What is your problem?

I don’t have a problem. What's yours?

703 posted on 09/09/2010 7:51:19 PM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: YHAOS
Did not Jesus admonish us to keep the commandments?

Jesus never said what Jefferson suggests (except what is line through), to wit: "Adore God. Reverence and cherish your parents. Love your neighbor as yourself, and your country more than yourself."

It’s more like you were telling me to shut up

"More like" I never said anything to that effect. Persecution issues?

Matthew 10:22 would apply here, I think (and 10:28; and 10:38-39

Doesn't say resist evil to the death. Matthew 5:39 however does say "do not oppose evil [or the evil one]." The verses you mention either have no relevance or call for taking on a cross (which is consistent with Petrine Epistles calling the faithful to suffer, by offering themselves in emulation of Christ, bit never to resist).

All just a Christian PR scheme?

Pretty much. The number of Christians was exceedingly small and there were really no organized campaigns by Romans to wipe them off the face of the earth; most of the anti-Christian violence was spontaneous mob lynchings of a sect perceived as effeminate and rumored to be cannibalistic. The rest is mostly Christian myth.

so what compromise (if you equate ‘choice’ with ‘compromise’) was required?

This was an illustration that in the real world compromise with evil is not always abject surrender bur a pragmatic necessity.

710 posted on 09/10/2010 12:05:20 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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