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To: YHAOS
Did not Jesus admonish us to keep the commandments?

Jesus never said what Jefferson suggests (except what is line through), to wit: "Adore God. Reverence and cherish your parents. Love your neighbor as yourself, and your country more than yourself."

It’s more like you were telling me to shut up

"More like" I never said anything to that effect. Persecution issues?

Matthew 10:22 would apply here, I think (and 10:28; and 10:38-39

Doesn't say resist evil to the death. Matthew 5:39 however does say "do not oppose evil [or the evil one]." The verses you mention either have no relevance or call for taking on a cross (which is consistent with Petrine Epistles calling the faithful to suffer, by offering themselves in emulation of Christ, bit never to resist).

All just a Christian PR scheme?

Pretty much. The number of Christians was exceedingly small and there were really no organized campaigns by Romans to wipe them off the face of the earth; most of the anti-Christian violence was spontaneous mob lynchings of a sect perceived as effeminate and rumored to be cannibalistic. The rest is mostly Christian myth.

so what compromise (if you equate ‘choice’ with ‘compromise’) was required?

This was an illustration that in the real world compromise with evil is not always abject surrender bur a pragmatic necessity.

710 posted on 09/10/2010 12:05:20 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50

line through =lined through
bur=but


711 posted on 09/10/2010 12:06:28 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50
Jesus never said what Jefferson suggests . . .”

Matthew 19:17 - Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 22:37-40 - Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jefferson invokes the two great commandments “adore God” and “Love your neighbor as yourself,” then adds “and your country more than yourself.” The latter being his own idea. He also advises his namesake to honor his mother and father (“Reverence and cherish your parents”), another of the Commandments. He concludes with “Be just. Be true. Murmur not at the ways of Providence.” invocations of Christ to which no one familiar with Christianity could possibly object unless they be in denial.

”More like” I never said anything to that effect.

“Get hold of your emotions and pipe down your presumptuous attitude.” Close enough. Less has been known to have started a flame war.

Persecution issues?

Now, now. You’re making this very personal, and we’re supposed to be discussing issues.

The verses you mention either have no relevance or call for taking on a cross

”And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.” (Matthew 10:38). That’s exactly what many early Christians did rather than deny Christ. And many another has endured torture or death rather than deny Christ, which they consider any surrender to evil to be. It continues to this day (see Voice of the Martyrs).

The number of Christians was exceedingly small

There is no accurate, specific count of Christian deaths at the hands of the Romans. Historians of the time used such expression as “a great many” or “large numbers.”

there were really no organized campaigns by Romans to wipe them off the face of the earth

To the best of my knowledge no one says Roman forays against Christians were continuous and organized. Or that their objective was to wipe Christians of the face of the earth. But, the notion that the number of Christian deaths was exceedingly small is an Atheist/Agnostic myth

This was an illustration that in the real world compromise with evil is not always abject surrender bur a pragmatic necessity.

What was an illustration? The cowardly behavior of the League of Nations? The corruption of Western Civilization? The abandonment of Christian values? Some compromise.

712 posted on 09/10/2010 7:24:26 PM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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