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To: Mad Dawg; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
After a slight amount of prayerful pondering . . .

I believe it is fairly obvious that [NOTE, the categories will naturally have a LOT of overlap and be somewhat changeable given mood, life experiences in a given week etc. So, of course, they will not add up to 100% no matter how you slice the below.]

A minority (49% or less) of RC's hereon and in my daily life . . . seem to put their RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD as a first priority. I'd actually guess it's less than 5%, from my experience and observations. It is clearly 25% or less--leaving a huge margin for error.

I think a huge percentage self-label as Roman Catholic more or less--at least MOSTLY--for SOCIAL/BUSINESS/FAMILY reasons. I'd guess that percentage to be 40-60% or more.

I think a huge percentage persist with some hint of Roman Catholocism from being reared as such in a surface way--like a lot of Taiwan Buddhists do with donations to Buddhism . . . JUST IN CASE. I have no real way to make even a good guess but I'd hazard a guess of 25-50% would have that as a major reason for still labeling themselves Roman Catholic.

I think a huge percentage put Mary first in their thinking; first in their rituals, first in their emotional responses, feelings; first in their heart--because the MOTHER FIGURE is sooooooooooo comforting to the flesh; so familiar; so inculcated at such an early age IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC SYSTEM and customs. I'd guess that's true for 50-85% or so.

I'd guess that 15-25% put THE VATICAN INSTITUTION first in their hearts, minds, feelings because of indoctrination and because their security needs focus on the LARGE MOTHER CHURCH as the biggest bulwark against insecurity, for them as individuals.

I'd guess that for those who truly put GOD FIRST, that Scripture would likely play a very significant role in their lives. However, because all the rituals etc. are sooooo dogmatically, customs wise, instructions wise, modelling wise etc. soooooooooo intensely intertwined in everything Roman Catholic, I'm skeptical that Scripture alone would have anything close to the priority in even a lot of their lives that it has in a lot of Proddys' lives.

For example, I have no doubt that Scripture has a huge place in Betty Boop's life. However, Betty would be a rare saint in whatever congregation of whatever label she found herself in BECAUSE OF WHAT GOD HAS DONE IN HER LIFE AND WHAT SHE HAS COOPERATED WITH GOD ON AND THE PLACE SHE HAS LEARNED TO GIVE GOD IN HER LIFE OUT OF HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCES AND RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM--IN SPITE OF--VS BECAUSE OF THE ROMAN SYSTEM. Am I wrong, Betty?

I would guesstimate that less than 20% of all Roman Catholics know significant amounts of the Catechism and major encyclicals. I doubt more than that give much of a flip about such.

I'd love to check my impressions on the above with Barna and other such research houses.

3,341 posted on 07/29/2010 11:19:28 AM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Quix
"I'd guess that percentage to be 40-60% or more."

"...but I'd hazard a guess of 25-50%"

" I'd guess that's true for 50-85% or so. "

"I'd guess that 15-25%"

"I would guesstimate that less than 20%"

Guess - To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information or qualifications.

3,345 posted on 07/29/2010 11:35:57 AM PDT by Natural Law (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Quix; Mad Dawg
A minority (49% or less)

I'd actually guess it's less than 5%, from my experience and observations.

It is clearly 25% or less--leaving a huge margin for error.

but I'd hazard a guess of 25-50%


Goodness, more rambling. Which opinion do you have? 49% or less or 5% or 25% or less or 25-50%?
3,348 posted on 07/29/2010 11:44:33 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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To: Quix
After a slight amount of prayerful pondering . . .

Very slight, it appears.
3,349 posted on 07/29/2010 11:45:24 AM PDT by Deo volente (God willing, America will survive this Obamination.)
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To: Quix; betty boop; Mad Dawg
Truly, betty boop is a blessing in any assembly of Christians - and a capable opponent in the belly of the beast of those who speak against Christ.

I am confident that her spiritual gifts and blessings are from God.

Thank you for pinging me to this sidebar, dear brother in Christ!

3,374 posted on 07/29/2010 12:42:05 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl; xzins; TXnMA; KC Burke; YHAOS; grey_whiskers; Diamond; stfassisi; marron; ...
I think a huge percentage self-label as Roman Catholic more or less — at least MOSTLY — for SOCIAL/BUSINESS/FAMILY reasons. I'd guess that percentage to be 40-60% or more.

Dear brother Quix, do you really believe the Roman Church has a monopoly on this phenomenon? I've attended Prottie services that seemed to be more concerned with social and political issues than with the salvation of souls. But then, I live in Massachusetts....

In all fairness, I'd say the same about Catholic services I've attended lately. Though recently I found the National Cathedral of the Divine Mercy in Stockbridge, Massachusetts to be a magnificently blessed island of peace and sanctity in the maelstrom of the currently chaotic roiling sociopolitical and ideological seas.... All praise and glory be to God!

I think I may have mystical tendencies. :^)

And so I agree with you that our RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD is our first priority as Christians. If He is not first and foremost in my heart and soul and mind and strength, then it doesn't matter what I call myself, I wouldn't be any kind of Christian, let alone a Catholic.

When GOD is first and foremost, then we see how all things flow from Him, are sustained by Him, proceeding from His Logos, Alpha to Omega. He is the way and the truth and the light and the life, the very ground of our own being. He is justice — and mercy: He subjected His own Son to pay an infinite price to save "worthless rabble" [my term] who, for whatever reason, God loves and wants to save....

Or at least so it seems to me, FWIW.

BTW, as you may know I have great affinity for Roman Catholic theology, but I did not learn it from the catechism of the Church, at least not as a child. Formal religious instruction was forbidden by my deist Dad. He was concerned that his children would be "brainwashed"....

So I wasn't "brainwashed"; I had no contact with the catechism at all until much later in life. Yet I must note that, among other things Roman Catholic, the great saints and doctors of the Church that I fondly call the "Three Big A's" — Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm — have always been enormously appealing to me, intellectually speaking.... The Church has a long and distinguished heritage of fides quarens intellectum, of faith in quest, or in search, of its reason. This search or quest depends on the openness of the human soul in response to God's appeals to it, by His Logos, through His Holy Spirit. The Church, to me, makes a powerful appeal to the human mind and spirit, quite naturally it seems.

But it never gives short shrift to the body. The Church has an eminently realist position on this. It knows that human beings are not just minds and souls, but bodies as well — at least in this mortal vale of tears. The Church believes even bodies need sanctification (maybe even especially so). And I believe that is why the Holy Mother is so deeply and reverently cherished by Catholics. She is the bodily locus where the divine and eternal Son of God and His finite earthly body came into conjunction. She spans two time orders, earthly and heavenly, as the divinely consecrated handmaiden or vessel of the Lord — the mother of God's Truth, His Logos, in our earthly, worldly system. Mary is not a god; she is the devotedly revered Mother of God, of the Person of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ; she is first and finally a human being who has ascended into Heaven and is now and forever united with her Son.

Plus many other things about the Church really bother some Protties — rituals, art, music — for to them they really smack of idolatry. Well, you can see it that way if you want to. But for me, I'd simply say that these are devices for "sanctifying the body"; for through appeals to the physical senses, they make the presence of God available to the human mind and spirit. A beautiful fresco, or stain-glass window, or musical composition seeks to engage the human person body and soul. Even the pungent olfactory appeal of incense symbolizes the presence of the Holy Spirit. I.e., the incense itself directs our minds to contemplation of the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Sacramental rituals can be explained along similar lines. But I've run overlong already.

In any case, these are my own views; I do not speak for the Roman Catholic Church, only what I have come to know of it as an outsider....

Thank you so much for writing, dear brother in Christ!

4,081 posted on 07/30/2010 1:49:49 PM PDT by betty boop (Those who do not punish bad men are really wishing that good men be injured. — Pythagoras)
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