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To: OLD REGGIE; Deo volente; Cronos; Mad Dawg; dsc
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that Peter is the rock upon which Christ would build His church. The official Roman Catholic position. Right?

what does this mean, then?

"Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the ROCK OF THIS FAITH CONFESSED BY ST. PETER, CHRIST BUILT HIS CHURCH. - Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Doesn't anyone find it curious that this was also stated?

2,726 posted on 07/27/2010 3:52:01 PM PDT by small voice in the wilderness (Defending the Indefensible. The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: small voice in the wilderness
he Catechism of the Catholic Church states that Peter is the rock upon which Christ would build His church. The official Roman Catholic position. Right?

what does this mean, then?

"Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the ROCK OF THIS FAITH CONFESSED BY ST. PETER, CHRIST BUILT HIS CHURCH. - Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Doesn't anyone find it curious that this was also stated?

There is a simple explanation.

There is no teaching of the RCC which is so clear in cannot be denied, modified, or reinterpreted as required.

2,744 posted on 07/27/2010 4:18:58 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: small voice in the wilderness
what does this mean, then?

It means that, as a touching instance of a faith maintained when all experience contradicts it, the Church thinks that human beings of good will are not only able to understand metaphor but willing to understand it.

Does it amaze you that Catholics can sing, in full warble, "The Church's one foundation// Is Jesus Christ Her Lord," while at the same time thinking what everyone knows we think about "Thou art Peter" and all the rest?

It's that we think that any dunce can understand that Peter is only a sort of delegated, substitute, vicarious foundation, and the Pope is only a (highly inadequate) stand-in for the REAL Lord and Foundation.

The old joke is: There are two kinds of people: Those who think there are two kinds of people and those who don't.

Catholics do not think think there are only two kinds of people, or only two kinds of anything much, not between the Cross and the Eschaton.

We, or the ones of us cursed with the addiction to thought, do not think that one can be ONLY EITHER a recipient of Grace OR a bestower of it. We can see how one can receive grace until he is full, and then pass grace on, so that he can receive more, until he is more a conduit than a tank -- or maybe a small tank which quickly overflows and then learns that it's function is chiefly to pass on what it has received.

We think, therefore, that Mary's being where she is in the dispensing (so, sue me) of Grace does not take away from God's being the source of Grace but rather affirms, wonderfully, that God is always more, and more generous, an din more wonderful ways, than one could possibly have thought of by oneself.

But, to those for whom there are only two kinds of people, that can't be understood except as some kind of derogation of God.

And yet these same people when asked, "Where did you get the six-pack?" Do not answer, "From God who gave the barley, hops, yeast, energy, metal for the brewing tanks, silicon dioxide for the bottles," and so on. They say, "From the Seven-Eleven", or Piggly Wiggly or Vons or whatever. and no one takes them to tasks for insulting the farmer and brewer and miner and smelter and fabricator.

But the minute a Catholic sings a loving antiphon to Mary, it's a calamity.

2,790 posted on 07/27/2010 7:22:10 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: small voice in the wilderness; OLD REGGIE; Deo volente; Cronos; Mad Dawg; dsc

No, not really. Your side argues that rocka stands for Christ not +Peter.


2,870 posted on 07/28/2010 1:41:04 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit)
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