And we know what is best done with this treasure:
Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
The best way to start coming into the light is by reading Scripture.
I suspect they left them first actually, though that might be a close thing. The problem with many Lutheran synods is the same problem with the Roman Catholic church in many dioceses. People and leaders chose to be comfortable rather than holy.
The sad thing is those people often get into leadership positions.
“From the fear of being calumniated, deliver me, Jesus.”
I know, it’s hard. But you can’t let them upset you, because falsehood can’t really touch you if you have the Truth, the Body and Blood of Our Lord.
And we know what is best done with this treasure:
Ha! As long as I don’t have to bunk with one of these anti-Catholic dispensers in heaven, I think I’ll be okay. :)
Sahha habiba! (that’s good night friend in Maltese)
“Habiba” is “sweetie” in Arabic.
Okay, got it. The “liberal” appellation was not attached to ME, but to the Catholic Church. And I am not afraid of being calumniated, I’ve been through plenty of that. It’s calling the entire Church liberal.
The Church can take it. If we feel it personally, that’s the suffering that we need to offer up as part of the Body of Christ.
Is he a theologan or professor of religion?
Just unbelievable...I am suitably envious.
At the end. This is the perseverance of the saints. Paul continuously preaches on conduct of the people and the hope of salvation. Jesus preached belief, baptism and conduct. Paul preached hope, not surety.
1 Thessalonians 5: 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love and the helmet that is hope for salvation. 9 For God did not destine us for wrath, but to gain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep we may live together with him. 2
Hope. God wants us to be saved. We may live together. But the hope is there, not the surety.
Romans 5: 1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace 2 with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access (by faith) to this grace in which we stand, and we boast in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we even boast of our afflictions, knowing that affliction produces endurance, 4 and endurance, proven character, and proven character, hope, 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy Spirit that has been given to us.
Paul preached hope. Not surety.
Romans 13: 1 1 Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. 2 Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil. Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it, 4 for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience. 6 This is why you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Pay to all their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, toll to whom toll is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. 8 2 Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this saying, (namely) "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no evil to the neighbor; hence, love is the fulfillment of the law. 11 3 And do this because you know the time; it is the hour now for you to awake from sleep. For our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed; 12 the night is advanced, the day is at hand. Let us then throw off the works of darkness (and) put on the armor of light; 13 let us conduct ourselves properly as in the day, 4 not in orgies and drunkenness, not in promiscuity and licentiousness, not in rivalry and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.
And why must one conduct oneself in this way if one is already saved?
Romans 14: 8 For if we live, we live for the Lord, 3 and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." 12 So (then) each of us shall give an account of himself (to God).
There are many who do not believe that they will be Judged. Paul says otherwise. We will all be Judged and He will accord to us what He will. And what will He accord to us?
I can quote Matthew 25 if required...
Iscool, my old friend. Are you still governing the Church of Iscool (population one) from the Sabbath Sports LaZBoy Throne of Doctrine in front of the large screen altar? I haven’t talked to you in quite some time. Are you and your doctrines well?
No, I was just angry for a moment. You’re right, it’s not important. And there’s always something more constructive to do than sit around reading that junk. It’s not like there’s a valid argument.
How about if I just “grrrrr”?
One of the things I love most about FR is that at least 99.999% of the people we post with are going to be conservative, whether atheist, Proddy, Catholic, whatever. That’s kind of pleasant, you know? Liberal, to me, means Obama and DU. That’s not my church.
Just unbelievable...I am suitably envious.
I will let him answer. His posts are often very instructive.
As time goes on, I keep wondering just exactly how much of Catholicism you actually missed and therefore your perception of it is proving to be more and more incorrect. Is it possible that your perception is so incorrect that you have little or no grounds to judge Catholicism at all?
"But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved:) and hath raised us up together and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES in Christ Jesus". (Eph. 2:4-6).
"That we should be to the praise of His glory who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also ALSO AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED YE WERE SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise." (Eph. 1:12,13).
"By the which will we ARE sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL...But this man, after he had offered ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER, sat down on the right hand of God...for by ONE OFFERING he hath perfected FOREVER them that are sanctified". (Heb. 10:10, 12,14).
Absolutely, I am saved. I am seated in heavenly places in Christ. I am saved, sanctified, justified, and sealed unto the day of redemption.
I know what you mean. I’m surprised when people on FR can’t be reasonable. But since you can’t throw a rotten canteloupe, you just have to say, “Oh, well!” and move on.
Colossians 2: 12 You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; 14 Ephesians 2: 1 1 2 You were dead in your transgressions and sins 3 2 in which you once lived following the age of this world, 4 following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the disobedient. 3 All of us once lived among them in the desires of our flesh, following the wishes of the flesh and the impulses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ 5 (by grace you have been saved), 6 raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so no one may boast. 10 For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. 11 6 Therefore, remember that at one time you, Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by those called the circumcision, which is done in the flesh by human hands, 12 were at that time without Christ, alienated from the community of Israel 7 and strangers to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 8 For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, 15 abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person 9 in place of the two, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, 18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. 10 21 Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord; 22 in him you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. called and here Paul is addressing the Gentiles. Ephesians 1:
13 In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed 7 with the promised holy Spirit, 14 which is the first installment 8 of our inheritance toward redemption as God's possession, to the praise of his glory. 15 9 Therefore, I, too, hearing of your faith in the Lord Jesus and of your love 10 for all the holy ones, 16 do not cease giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation resulting in knowledge of him. 18 May the eyes of (your) hearts be enlightened, that you may know what is the hope that belongs to his call, what are the riches of glory in his inheritance among the holy ones, 19 and what is the surpassing greatness of his power for us who believe, in accord with the exercise of his great might, 20 which he worked in Christ, raising him from the dead and seating him at his right hand in the heavens, 21 far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, 11 the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.
The role of the Church and the promise of hope to believers.
Ephesians 1: 11 In him we were also chosen, destined in accord with the purpose of the one who accomplishes all things according to the intention of his will, 12 so that we might exist for the praise of his glory, we who first hoped 6 in Christ.
hint, hint, who were the ones who first hoped in Christ?
Them that are sanctified? And who are they? Do you self identify as one of the sancfied?
Hebrews 10: 14 If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who rejects the law of Moses 15 is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace? 30 We know the one who said: "Vengeance is mine; I will repay," and again: "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32 Remember the days past when, after you had been enlightened, 16 you endured a great contest of suffering. 33 At times you were publicly exposed to abuse and affliction; at other times you associated yourselves with those so treated. 34 You even joined in the sufferings of those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, knowing that you had a better and lasting possession. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence; it will have great recompense. 36 You need endurance to do the will of God and receive what he has promised. 37 "For, after just a brief moment, 17 he who is to come shall come; he shall not delay. 38 But my just one shall live by faith, and if he draws back I take no pleasure in him." 39 We are not among those who draw back and perish, but among those who have faith and will possess life.
Will possess. Will endure. Live by faith. Endurance. No, Paul does not preach surety of salvation, but the endurance of the faithful. Hmm, that is 100 points of out of 100 in similarity to the Catechism of the Church...
Unbelievers will be judged, as Paul states: "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL." (Rom. 2:16). It may be incumbent on those who THINK they are following the gospel, to know just what the " MY GOSPEL" Paul is referring to..
What question of mine did you think you answered? Seriously. Because this is what I was asking for....
Post 1,135...
opusatFR: A material comparison against the numinous experience is just silly.
mm: Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that what Jesus did with much of His teachings?
Did Jesus not use material comparisons against numinous experiences?
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OpusatFR: I forgot the term. Eternal whatever is one I’d heard from some Baptist. You are saved. You are in the process of being saved. You will be saved if you persevere.
I know what you mean, but I don’t recall the proper term either. I’ll remember it at something like 2 in the morning.
No, I do not believe that you can “LOSE” your salvation. That implies that you can keep it by works. Since it’s not works that get you saved, it’s not works that keeps you saved.
Galatians 3:1-5 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
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