Posted on 07/10/2010 10:09:50 AM PDT by TaraP
Before you read this post I want to make one thing very clear. In no way am I saying the rapture of the Church is going to happen this coming September. Yes it is possible, but we just do not know for sure.
Jesus could choose to come for His Church next year, the year after, ten years from now. The point is this. We know He will come for His Bride the Chruch at some point during the Feast of Trumpet.
Since we do not know what year we must do what He asks and keep on the watch. Be ready at all times so that when He does come He will find you doing His will and ready to be taken at the rapture.
Why does Jesus want us to keep our eye on the biblical calendar? Jesus wants those who are watching for His return to be ready when he comes to take the church out of the world. The only way one can do that is to know what they are looking for. It is clear as day what Christians are to look for, but I would say most Christians don't have a clue as to what the sign is.
Why don't they know? I can see two reasons, first they are in a church where their pastor never teaches about the signs of the times and, second Christians are not studying the word themselves and they therefore would not know the signs. Let me help you understand a very important message from Christ. If you understand what Jesus was talking about, it will become clear to you what you and your family should be watching for.
Many people have asked me, why waste time trying to figure out when Jesus is going to come back when, Jesus himself said no man knows. Let me quote Jesus in Matthew 24:36 so you know what I'm talking about. “But of that day and hour no one snowman, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only”. Now I want you to take notice what Jesus is really saying here in relation to the Jewish thoughts and Jewish traditions.
The phrase but of that day and hour no man knows is a common Hebrew idiom for the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah. Rosh Hashanah is one of the seven Jewish Holidays, and it is known to the Jewish people as the feast of trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets takes place in the fall. In Leviticus 23 you see these feasts are appointed times established as yearly rehearsals that taught both historically and prophetically the whole plan of God. This plan included the coming of Christ and how Christ would bring redemption to all who received him.
In short, God has given us his biblical calendar. Out of the seven biblical holidays the only ones left to be fulfilled are the fall feast which are Rosh Hashanah also known as the Feast of Trumpets, Yom Kippur, which is the day of atonement, and tabernacles. I am going to center on the Feast of Trumpets because on God's calendar this is the next in line to be fulfilled.
Knowing this information, let me get back to Jesus’ statement in Matthew 24:36 where he said “no man knows the day or hour”.
This verse has to do with the Jewish wedding. The father had to make sure the Son had everything prepared and ready for the wedding. If anyone would ask the Jewish man when is the wedding, he would say ask my father only he knows. This was the normal practice for the Jews.
That statement was a traditional response. When it came time for this wedding to take place the man would go out at midnight sound the blast by blowing the sulfur letting his bride know he had come for her. The Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah points to the Jewish cultural evidence that Rosh Hashanah will be the appointed time of the rapture of the church. As proof of this let me now show you what has already taken place with this Jewish wedding in relation to Jesus Christ and his bride the Church.
In a Jewish wedding the Jewish woman indicates she will marry him by accepting his proposal by drinking a cup of wine he gives her. What did Jesus do with the last supper? Jesus passed a cup of wine at the Last Supper and those who drank the wine accepted being his bride.
Secondly, the Jewish man would have to pay a price to the bride's parents. What did Jesus do and what was the price he paid? Jesus paid the price for us as His bride with His own life by dying on the cross for us.
The next thing and Jewish men would do to prepare for the wedding was to give His bride a gift. What gift did Jesus Christ give His bride the Church? Jesus gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The next thing the Jewish man would have to do to prepare for this wedding was go and prepare a place for both himelf and his wife to live in when they were married. Do you remember the words of Jesus Christ in John chapter 14: 3?
Jesus said, “and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also”. This is where Jesus is right now, he is preparing the home for His church the bride of Christ.
The next thing the Jewish man would do to prepare for Jewish wedding is this, he would take a host of people with Him at midnight go out shouting and blowing the shofar for his bride. The shofar is a horn. Now read what Jesus told the Apostle Paul to write in First Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 15 through 16. Paul mentions the exact timing of this event twice! In verse 15, he says that this occurs at the coming of the Lord, and in verse 16, Christ comes down from heaven with a shout with the voice of an ark angel, and with the trumpet of God.
This is the point at which time Jesus will come for us, the church, just the same way the Jewish man would go out at midnight and call for his bride. This will be the next thing to take place on God's calendar at the Feast of Trumpets.
The next thing that would take place after a Jewish wedding, which came after the man went out to get his bride would be to spend seven days alone with his bride to consummate the marriage in their wedding chamber. When Jesus comes back for his bride the church, he takes the church to heaven for seven years. If you notice, this is the exact length of the seven-year tribulation.
Listen to what it says in Isaiah chapter 26:20-21 “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.” These are the chamber's Jesus will keep his church in while the seven-year tribulation is taking place on earth.
The church, bride of Christ, will be hidden from these terrible times that will befall the earth during the tribulation.
As you can now see, everything that Jesus has done was in accordance to the traditions of the Jewish wedding which is also based on the holidays of the biblical calendar.
I want to get back to what the Apostle Paul had to say in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5:1-4 when he stated the following, “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief”.
Paul was a Jew and he understood the signs of the times would be taking place during the times and seasons, or the Jewish holidays. In the above verse Paul eludes to the sign of peace and safety and he tells the reader they won't be in the darkness because they would be watching for these events to take place during the Jewish holiday season. When you read Genesis chapter 1 verse 14 we see the word seasons which is the Hebrew word for a pointed time.
The seasons, appointed time, Paul was referring to was the actual day that Jesus was going to return on the feast of trumpets which would take place in the fall. So when Paul told the Jews you have no need that I write and to you, being Jewish they understood exactly what Paul was talking about.
The only people who will be in the dark when Jesus comes on his feast will be those who do not have the understanding of the word of God in them, and do not have any understanding of these biblical matters.
Please take notice in relation to Rev. 3:3. In part of this verse Jesus tells the church at Sardis, which was considered a dead church to repent from their ways and to watch. Notice what happens when you aren’t watching? I quote, that part of verse 3 here, “I will come on the as a thief and the owl shalt not know what hour I will come upon the.”
Do forget, Jesus is speaking to the dead church. What is Jesus showing us in this verse? Christ is showing us He only comes to the dead church as a thief, not to an alert and alive church, they will not be caught off guard.
In Revelation chapter 3 verses 17 through 18 Jesus is now speaking to the Church of Laodicea. This is another church that is not ready and Jesus calls this church and lukewarm church. What happens to a lukewarm church?
Jesus tells us this answer in Revelation 3:16 where he says, “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth”. Notice in those verses Jesus tells them to go and buy white raiment that “that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear.”
What most people don't understand is what this white raiment really means. Stay with me and you'll understand exactly what it is. Rev. 3:18 is another key to understanding what Jesus is showing us. I quote “I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see”.
Let's go back to the Jewish traditions for a second, and I will show you how all this is ties together. During the time that the Jewish Temple was standing when Jesus was here the first time, the high priest and the captain of the guard were known as the “thief in the night” and, this is why. There were watch posts at the Temple where the priest had to be watching. One of the things they had to watch for was that the fire on the altar would not go out. This was a Godly fire that fell on the altar and it was commanded by God that this fire never go out. The priest had to watch this fire. If her priest was found to be sleeping when the captain of the guard checked on his rounds, the captain of the guard would take his torch, which was next to the altar fire, and set the priest’s garment on fire with the torch. The priest would be awaken by the fire, he would get up run through the Temple tearing off the garments that were on fire, and the shame of the priest’s nakedness would appear.
Now you see how Revelation chapter 16 verse 15 ties into what Jesus said about the Church that was dead. Now. when you go back and read 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 Paul says the following: “for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night” you now know what is meant by this phrase, “as a thief in the night”.
In other words, when Jesus comes back and finds you sleeping like the priest in the Temple, and obviously not on the watch, you'll end up like the priest, running in your nakedness and in shame because you were not ready for his visitation.
Why would you say "child" when posterity is the conext of the verse? We are talking about Eve here, the mother of us all.
So, you then must also be saying Satan has a child?
And you will search in vain for God's authorization to man to spiritualize His Scripture into meaningless mush.
But it makes a lot of people feel so much more secure, you know, just knowing that none of the prophetic Scripture is actually true and none of it will actually happen because the Scripture that details the event of the Rapture actually means something else.
And what the real meaning is will depend on what allegorizer of Scripture you happen to ask at any given moment. They all have different meanings for the same Scripture.
In Jesus' day the Sadducees, who did not know scripture nor the power of God, and the Pharisees, who loved the Law but hated the Lord, constantly nit-picked Jesus with little if any scriptural backing, and the meager bits of scripture they used were sadly misunderstood by those trying to read God's Word with their carnal minds wresting and convoluting what they read.
So it is with so many today.
Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Revelation 1:3
Thanks for your response. While a pretribulational rapture is attractive for several reasons, I find the arguments for it to be fairly weak.
To me the best arguments are dispensationalism (particularly distinctions between Israel and the Church), and the Lord’s return described as a suddenly occurring event (particularly as associated with the command to watch for Him).
The problem with these arguments, like others, is they are simply generalizations. The tendency is to use a generalized theological principle to force a particular interpretation on a passage. What should happen is that passages should shape such general principles.
For example, the Lord explained that He had other sheep that He would bring into the fold, and there would be one fold. This should shape the dispensational view of the relationship between Israel and the Church.
Likewise, many of the descriptions of the Lord’s return that are supposed to support a pretribulational view are clearly used when scriptures describe the Lord’s return at the final judgment. For example, the idea of no one knowing the day or hour, and the comparison with the days of Noah. These are clearly used in reference to the Lord’s coming after the great tribulation.
“In Revelation Chapter 7, the 144,000 of the Twelve Tribes of Israel are ‘sealed’ with the Holy Spirit, which then gives them the power to spread the Gospel and lead people to Christ.”
But how are there any followers of Christ in Revelation 6, if the Church has been taken out? Who is the Restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2? When does the strong delusion occur?
“The Church is not referenced again in Revelation. Later, it becomes necessary to seal 144,000 Jews with the Holy Spirit, after which John begins to make reference to tribulation ‘saints’”.
Jesus Christ is also not specifically named for several chapters of Revelation even though the entire book is about Him. The perspective changes back and forth between heaven and earth; between past, present and future events. It is very speculative to draw such a forceful conclusion from this alone. The redeemed from every tribe, language, people and nation who stand before the throne in 7:9 are matched in the description of the 24 elders who are said to represent the Church. See 5:9. If so, the Church is incomplete without these tribulation saints. Notice the white robes in common between the martyrs in chapter 6, the tribulation saints of chapter 7 and the bride of the Lamb in chapter 19. Notice also the bride represented by 12 apostles and 12 tribes of Israel (12+12=24 as there are 24 elders) in 21:12-14. So, in Christ, God has formed one “new man” of both Israel and the Church. See Ephesians 2:15-16.
“Revelation 6:1-17 records the six seal judgments, which are the first reported judgments of the tribulation. Revelation 6 and the seal judgments also contradict the Van Kampen formulation since the Bible describes all six judgments as “. . .the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come . . .” (Rev.6:16c-17a).
That’s incorrect. People on earth recognize after the signs in heaven that the Day of God’s wrath has finally arrived. Van Kampen’s distinguishing between the tribulation and wrath is valid. Believers go through tribulation as Christ said they would. Believers have been spared from God’s wrath. We can experience tribulation in God’s will. We can experience chastening and judgment due to disobedience, but never God’s wrath. The end of Revelation 6 is the first indication of God’s wrath beginning.
“Such biblical usage does not allow an interpreter to chop the Day of the Lord into compartmental segments as Van Kampen insists. The text plainly says that the Day of the Lord is a time of both tribulation and God’s wrath.”
I differ again. The passage cited may not naturally lead to a distinction but also does not prevent it. Other passages lead to such distinction. The signs in the heavens clearly delineate the timing. These signs are repeatedly indicative of the end of the great tribulation (at least for the elect), and the beginning of the Day of the Lord.
“Notice that the twenty-four elders are NOT spirits, but are instead depicted as having bodies. Spirits aren’t clothed and crowned, and seated”
Notice also that the 5th seal reveals “souls” (not bodies) under the altar. These are martyrs. In chapter 7 we see multitudes from every nation arrive at the presence of the Lamb. How?
“Why did God find it necessary to seal 12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes to carry the Gospel - before then reassigning the job to an angel? Where is the Church? Why isn’t it on the job?”
The 144,000 sealed are not specifically described as evangelizing. That could be true, but it is speculative. Further, it is exactly at this point where I believe the “rapture” must occur. This is implied as the catching up of believers to meet the Lord in the air is not specifically described anywhere in the book.
“We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, (”and a door was opened in heaven”) at the last trump - for the trumpet SHALL sound (”a voice, as it were a trumpet”) and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, (”Come up hither”) and we shall be changed. (”and immediately I was in the Spirit”) (1st Corinthians 15:52, Revelation 4:1)”
But how is the “last trump” followed by an even later trump of seven angels beginning in Revelation 8. Perhaps because these seven angels collectively represent the last trump. Notice here also is where heaven becomes silent. When sinners repent there is rejoicing in heaven. But here heaven is silent. Why?
” ‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth.’ (Revelation3:10) We will escape all seven years worth of judgment.”
Interestingly, the term “keep” means to hang onto rather than be taken out of. It is the same word the Lord used when He prayed “I ask NOT that You take them out of the world, but that You KEEP them...” On the other hand we are told believers await for God’s Son returning from heaven, Who saves us from the coming wrath. See John 17:15 and 1 Thessalonians 1:10. The latter case indicates being taken out. The first clearly does not.
“The Holy Apostle Paul’s First Letter to the Thesselonians makes that timing absolutely explicit.”
Can you clarify? I see this book as clearly connecting the return of the Lord to the arrival of the “Day of the Lord”.
My reading is that the great tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation and ends (at least for the elect) when Christ returns, after which the day of the Lord commences wherein the enemies of Christ yet alive on earth are severely punished by God as His wrath is poured out on the earth.
Thanks for the link. I listened to a few of the rabbi’s messages and found him to be quite interesting and thought-provoking.
My initial impression though is that he approaches these passages with the conclusion already predetermined in his mind and merely looking for facts that support his preconceptions.
On the other hand he did bring many factual arguments to the table which deserve consideration. I will have to spend more time studying them. I have always been curious as to how Bible-believing Jews interpreted these passages and did not come to a Christian perspective.
The thrust of his arguments seem to be that the New Testament uses Hebrew scriptures in ways that do not fit the actual meaning of the passages quoted. However, this argument is flawed in terms of how Christians perceive the Hebrew scriptures. The rabbi cites specific quotes in the New Testament and tries to show how the application is invalid. Many of these are not necessarily cited in the New testament as proof for unbelieving Jews. In many cases these are provided to help Christians understand theological truths.
For example Paul uses the principle from the law of not muzzling an ox that treads the corn to instruct Christian churches to provide financial support for those who serve and work. This is not a proof text; it is simply using natural illustrations to help us comprehend spiritual truths. If someone approaches this from the perspective that every quote from the Hebrew scriptures is intended to prove the New Testament claims, the true intent will be missed.
Likewise, almost all of the New Testament quotations of Hebrew scriptures come straight from the Septuagint. The Masoretic text was preserved by Jews who explicitly rejected the message and arguments of the apostles and New Testament writers. If the claims of the New Testament are true that Jewish leaders turned Jesus over to the Romans for crucifixion without a legal or moral reason for doing so (i.e. betraying and shedding innocent blood), and if it is true that such leaders attempted to squelch the spread of this message by persecuting early Jewish Christians, and if it is true that they also attempted to deceptively corrupt and falsify Christian writings, then it is also not a stretch to question whether the safe guarding of Hebrew scriptures was done faithfully.
I respect the rabbi though for his reasoned approach. One of the greatest religious errors is the use of coercion rather than reason as a means of persuading others to one’s viewpoint. This seems to be the case experienced by early Jewish Christian sects by their fellow Jews. Early Gentile Christians experienced this by their countrymen who worshiped idols and were angered by the financial impact of their religion being abandoned. Shamefully, many years of church history show those claiming to represent Christ used the most vile forms of coercion to spread and force their religion on others. Today we see that happening in Islam.
While I may not agree with the rabbi, I respect his approach of using reason to make his case.
This is all correct. If you know we’re not appointed to God’s wrath, then all you need to know is chapter 6 is the beginning of the seven-year tribulation.
By Chapt 6, the church has already been caught up into heaven (after Rev 4:1 the church is not seen on the earth and Israel’s seventieth week begins which is why we see God now saving Israel (Rev 7)).
As you know the seventieth week is divided up into two 3½ years periods. The wrath of God is throughout the 7-year tribulation period. In the first half, Rev 6:16-17 declares His wrath is come. The difference is in the 2nd half, His wrath is poured out “without mixture” (Rev 14:10). This means there’s no mercy mixed with His wrath in the 2nd half. After Rev 14:16, no one is saved (except for a remnant of Israel that has fled to the mountains of Jordan (Edom) (many believe they will be hiding in Petra).
The seven-year timing of the tribulation:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. Revelation 11:3. 1260 days is 3½ years for the two witnesses. The beast will kill the two witnesses. Revelation 11:7. The beast continues forty and two months = 3½ years (Rev 13:5). The beast is thrown into the lake of fire at the end of the 70th week. Revelation 19:20.
The beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit is first mentioned in Revelation when he kills the two witnesses after their 3 ½ year testimony. This takes place right at the end of the second woe and just before the third woe in Rev. 11:14. So, if you backtrack the 3½ year duration of the beast from the end of the tribulation, you get the middle of the 70th week which is Rev. 11:14.
Putting this together indicates that you’ve got 3½ years before Rev 10:7 in which the two witnesses testify and the third woe kicks off the 2nd half, the reign and destruction of the beast and Babylon. FYI, by the end of the first 3½ years and the end of the second woe, ½ of the world is dead (Rev 6:8 + Rev 9:18).
Hey great! I cant believe you actually listened...thanks for that. Many seem to think that the Jews are "blind" or that they just dont understand that there is a "suffering messiah" etc...but Jews dont accept Jesus for a myriad of reasons that are firmly rooted in scripture. Now, people can argue the meaning of those scripture, thats fine. But Jews dont dismiss Jesus "out of hand".
The thrust of his arguments seem to be that the New Testament uses Hebrew scriptures in ways that do not fit the actual meaning of the passages quoted.
Yeah, sort of. He generally is saying the NT will mistranslate or take out of context the Hebrew scriptures, to make the Hebrew scriptures Christological. And I think he demostrates that effectively. People will argue about that and that is fine. G-d will work it all out in the end.
and if it is true that such leaders attempted to squelch the spread of this message by persecuting early Jewish Christians, and if it is true that they also attempted to deceptively corrupt and falsify Christian writings, then it is also not a stretch to question whether the safe guarding of Hebrew scriptures was done faithfully.
Well keep in mind a couple things. 1st the Jewish leaders at the time were corrupt. Caiaphas, was a Roman appointed leader and was a Sadducee. The Sadducees became extinct after the destruction of the temple. The Pharisees have become the Orhtodox Jews of today. The Scribes are yet another group. They copy the Texts, one letter at a time and even the slightest handwritting error would invalid the Torah or the text and it would be destroyed. So, the corrupt Sadducees would not have been able to corrupt the text.
secondly, the Septuagint was copied from the Hebrew and the 72 Rabbi's copied the Torah and it is in good agreement with modern Hebrew text. There are differences in the Septuagint for the prophets and writings but those were not translated by the Rabbi's.
Those differences have to be worked out as Rabbi Singer does, by looking at how those words are used in other verses and seeing if the translation is consistent or out of context.
Yes, coercion has been brutal. Not a highly regarded method of dialogue.!
Shalom
Praise Jesus! If you don’t believe, now is a good time to start. Pray, “Lord I believe, help my unbelief.”
“That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)
I didn’t say `Child`, Strong’s Concordance said `Child` I just copied and pasted it, check for yourself.
Regarding your last comment challenging me on Satan having a child, well if your context of `posterity` were to be the case then he’d have CHILDREN. How would you explain that?
I did before I posted to you.
Regarding your last comment challenging me on Satan having a child, well if your context of `posterity` were to be the case then he’d have CHILDREN. How would you explain that?
That's right, posterity would mean (according to the Christian view the snake is Satan) children or decendants.
Part of the point I was trying to make (and forgot to make it) is that Judaism doesnt say the Snake is Satan.
A person has to take the whole sequence of verses there in context.
3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
G-d curses the snake above all the animals....nothing to do with Satan.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring [a] and hers; he will crush [b] your head, and you will strike his heel."
In Hebrew it says it differently:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.'
So, the snake gets punished and so does the woman and her decendents
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.
And the man gets punished too.
To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
So the whole sequence is about punishment for the snake, woman and man. The snake is not Satan. The snakes offspring will be forever a dangerous pest to humanity and vis-versa, in the fallen state. Women have childbirth pain and men have to toil in the field.
It cant be Satan. Satan has no child or decendants.
God tells us that there will be multitudes saved during the Tribulation who missed the Rapture. There are many more sheep to bring into the fold.
Likewise, many of the descriptions of the Lord’s return that are supposed to support a pretribulational view are clearly used when scriptures describe the Lord’s return at the final judgment. For example, the idea of no one knowing the day or hour, and the comparison with the days of Noah. These are clearly used in reference to the Lord’s coming after the great tribulation.
Noah was removed from the scene of the judgment before the judgment began. He was not left to go through the wrath of God, he was not "brought through" the wrath; he was removed from it via the ark. So Noah is an excellent illustration of how God removes his own from the the scene before He sends judgment on the wicked.
When we search the Scriptures and read the passages describing the Lord Jesus' return, we find verses that tell us we won't know the day and hour of that event. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 indicates that the Jews will have to wait on the Lord 1,260 days, starting when the Antichrist stands in the Temple of God and declares himself to be God (2 Thes 2:4). This fact is a huge argument against a mid-Trib Rapture; Jesus tell us that there are no signs that precede the Rapture. The mid-Trib view holds that at the mid-point of the Tribulation, the Antichrist stands in the temple and declares himself to be God and that is when the Rapture occurs. The mid-Trib view is in opposition to 1 Corinthians 1:7, 1 Corinthians 16:22, Philippians 3:20, Philippians 4:5, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18, 1 Thessalonians 5:6, 1 Timothy 6:14, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 9:28, James 5:7-9, 1 Peter 1:13, Jude 21, and Matthew 24:42-46, among others which indicate that the Rapture is an imminent, signless event. Those who believe in a mid-Tribulation Rapture believe that the Abomination of Desolation is the sign that will herald the Rapture. Therefore, the mid-Tribulation view contradicts too much Scripture to be credible.
Because we have no way to refute the fact that we will not know the timing of our Lord's return, any part of the tribulation is a barrier to the Rapture.
This type of "any-moment" language doesn't fit a mid-trib rapture. If Jesus were prevented from coming until after some of the judgments and the Abomination of Desolation, we would have no need to watch for Him before the tribulation.
If the Church were required to go through the first part of the seven-year tribulation, you would expect the New Testament writers to have warned us to be prepared for trying times. On the contrary, the New Testament writers repeatedly tell the Church to be comforted by the "coming of the Lord" (1 Thes 4:18). The word "comfort" alone strongly implies the rapture will take place before the tribulation.
If a Christian has been lucky enough to survive a host of apocalyptic calamities and elude the Antichrist's secret police for at least 3 1/2 years, I cannot imagine that he would be oblivious to the nearness of the Lord's return at the 7-year mark. If I were reduced to the point of having to hide in a forest and forage through dead tree bark to find beetles and grubs to sustain myself, I'm certain my every thought would be focused on the Lord's return.
But how are there any followers of Christ in Revelation 6, if the Church has been taken out? Who is the Restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2? When does the strong delusion occur?
In Revelation chapter 6 verses 9 - 11 the story is told of the martyrs and how they were killed by the beast (Antichrist) because they would not receive the mark 666. First, verse 9 specifically states that all these saints are ones slain for their testimony of the word of God. These saints are said to be under the altar of God and are crying to the Lord to avenge their deaths on them that are on the earth. Verse 11, says they given white robes and a time of rest as they wait for a short season until their fellow servants and brethren would also be murdered, as they were on the earth. What they are waiting for is the Second Coming of the Messiah Jesus Christ when God purges the world of the Antichrist and sinful men.It's very important to remember that it is in Revelation 6: 9 - 11, 12 - 16 where they are killed during the 5th and 6th seals. John gives additional information about these people who are martyred for their faith in Christ. Read Revelation 13: 7. (See also Daniel 7: 21, 25.). These are the tribulation martyrs who were killed by the Antichrist. And these martyrs show up in Heaven (before the 7th seal is opened) in Revelation chapter 7 verses 9 through 17 which tell all about them.
The deaths of these Tribulation saints are the result of the actions of the rider of the Pale horse who brings death and hell on the earth. This is a picture of events during the Seal Judgments, and begins when the Antichrist and his evil forces are persecuting and killing believers on the earth. It must be noted the passage states all these have been slain and are crying to the Lord for judgment to come on the Antichrist and those that serve him. Absolutely nothing in this passage can even remotely be understood as referring to believers in the current Church Age who will be raptured before the Tribulation begins. Revelation 6:9-11 is referring to saints who have believed after the Tribulation has begun. These saints are not part of the current dispensation of the Church Age. These are Jews and Gentiles who believe on Jesus Christ after the Rapture and every one in this group will be killed for their testimony for Christ. All believers in this present dispensation have not been killed for their testimony of Jesus Christ. Clearly, this is a different group of believers and not those of the present Church Age. First if these are all the raptured saints of God, of this age, it would require that all those who are raptured must be slain and martyred. Of course this is not the case. Second it does not explain what happens to believers who have died in Christ Jesus. Once again the Pre-Wrath heresy is refuted by the word of God.
Who is the Restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2? When does the strong delusion occur?
2nd Thessalonians 2:7 tells us that "the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
The word rendered 'let' in the KJV was the correct translation for English as used in King James' day.
In Old English usage common in 1611, to 'let' was to 'restrain', the precise opposite of how the word would be used in contemporary English.
So, He Who restrains will continue to restrain [evil] until He is taken out of the way, Paul writes, "and then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming"
Note first that the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit. Since the Holy Spirit is God, obviously He will not be taken from the earth. Where God isn't, nothing is.
Second, note the ministry of the Holy Spirit. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" . . . the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. . .[John 14:16, 14:26]
Clearly, the ministry of the Holy Spirit is absent during the time of the Tribulation, since that ministry is what withholds or restrains unrestricted evil now.
In any case, Jesus sent the Comforter to the Church to abide with us forever. Scripture teaches that each Christian is personally indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" [1 Corinthians 6:19]
Logically, then, if the Church goes through the Tribulation, but the ministry of the Holy Spirit must be withdrawn before "that Wicked is revealed", then either that withdrawal is part of a general evacuation, or else the promise of a Comforter must be revised.
Something along the lines of, "I will send you a Comforter, but just when you need Him most, during the worst time of tribulation to ever come upon humanity, when men will cry out for the rocks to fall on them rather than live another moment, well, at that time, the Comforter will be recalled. You can face the greatest spiritual assault to ever come against the earth on your own."
And God doesn't tell us exactly when the "strong delusion" will occur, but it has to be shortly after the Rapture of the Church because God tells us that the Antichrist will be worshiped by the world throughout the entire seven year Tribulation. In fact, we are told that 3 1/2 years into the Tribulation, the Antichrist feels strong enough through the world's worship to stand in the rebuild Temple and declare himself to be God.
Jesus Christ is also not specifically named for several chapters of Revelation even though the entire book is about Him. The perspective changes back and forth between heaven and earth; between past, present and future events. It is very speculative to draw such a forceful conclusion from this alone. The redeemed from every tribe, language, people and nation who stand before the throne in 7:9 are matched in the description of the 24 elders who are said to represent the Church. See 5:9. If so, the Church is incomplete without these tribulation saints. Notice the white robes in common between the martyrs in chapter 6, the tribulation saints of chapter 7 and the bride of the Lamb in chapter 19. Notice also the bride represented by 12 apostles and 12 tribes of Israel (12+12=24 as there are 24 elders) in 21:12-14. So, in Christ, God has formed one “new man” of both Israel and the Church. See Ephesians 2:15-16.
The perspective changes back and forth between heaven and earth; between past, present and future events. It is very speculative to draw such a forceful conclusion from this alone.
Another error of the Pre-Wrath view is in purporting that the first part of the seven year Tribulation, the Seal Judgments, are not the wrath of God, but the wrath of "man" which means Satan and the Antichrist. Further the Pre-Wrath view concludes that the seal judgments are a time of peace on earth. However, this view ignores a vital truth clearly stated in Revelation 5:12 and 6:1f. These verse plainly state that at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation the wrath and judgment of God begins with the opening of the Seal Judgments by Jesus Christ (the Lamb of Rev. 5:12, 6:16).
Revelation 5:1-14 is the prelude to the Tribulation in which Jesus Christ is presented as the Lamb, who is the only worthy One, who has the authority and position to open the seven sealed books. The seven sealed books hold the coming judgments of God. Only Christ is worthy to open and beginning the our pouring of God's wrath on the earth.
The Pre-Wrath view says that the beginning of the Tribulation is not the wrath of God, but rather of man, or of the Antichrist and Satan. However, Revelation 5:3 states, "And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." The book states that no man could open the seven sealed book of the wrath of God, which He will unfold in the seven year Tribulation. The opening of the book begins the seven year Tribulation. What is about to unfold is plainly not the work of any man, but of the Messiah, the work of "the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David." This event is Almighty God, the Lord Jesus Christ, fulfilling His plan for Israel and the world in this final stage before the Millennium.
It is the Lamb, Himself, who opens the first seal (Rev. 6:1) and thus initiates the beginning of the seven years of the Tribulation. Revelation 5:4 plainly says that no man could open the book. Further, Revelation 6:3, states that "he" referring to the Lamb of verse 6:1, and verses 5, 7, 9, and 12, continues in opening each of the subsequent Seal Judgments. Clearly, these are not judgments initiated by man or Antichrist, but by the Worthy Lamb of Chapter 5. It is Jesus Christ who opens each of the seals in the first half of the Tribulation and brings God's wrath on the earth. Yes, it is the Antichrist who persecutes God's people and all peoples on earth, but he does so at the discretion of Jesus Christ. God will be using the Antichrist as the instrument of His wrath. Many times in biblical history God used the enemies of Israel to chasten and judge them. The Antichrist could do nothing unless he was allowed by God to do so. The Pre-Wrath view is fatally flawed in its assumption that it is not God who is pouring His wrath on the earth at the beginning of the Tribulation and through out the seven years and until the three sets of God's judgments are completed. It is Almighty God who is using the Seal Judgments. This begins His plan to purge the earth of sin. It should be recognized that if the Seal Judgments are the wrath of God, the Pre-Wrath position is refuted.
There can be no mistake, the New Testament says in this dispensation of the Church Age, which began at Pentecost (Acts 2) and will continue until the Rapture, believers will not go through wrath the of God. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 deals with instruction concerning the end times and verse 19, gives Christians the promise of God, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:9).
It is Jesus Christ who begins the seven year Tribulation and the outpouring of God's wrath as Revelation 6 reveals. The beginning of God's wrath is in His allowing the Riders of the Four Horsemen to rain their various destructions on the earth. In the beginning it is the Lamb who opens the first seal and unleashes the Antichrist, the first horseman riding a white horse upon the earth. The first rider riding a white horse and wearing a crown is allowed to go forth to conquer the world. This is a picture of the Antichrist who will rise to power on earth as a great political leader and present himself as a savior to the world. He will represent himself as a man of peace in his deceptive strategy. Represented as a "little horn," the Antichrist comes with a crown on his head and as Daniel 7:8, 8:8-12 prophecies and takes control of the world's governments. He comes offering peace but by military and political might, and his actions will bring havoc and death on the earth.
The Pre-Wrath advocates say this will be a time of peace on the earth. But Revelation 6:2 states, the Antichrist will be "going forth to conquer and conquering," and this is clearly not a picture of a period of peace. Daniel 9:27 says "And he (the Antichrist) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the over spreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." (Daniel 9:27) However, no scripture says that the peace the Antichrist offers actually occurs. The assumption is that because the temple shall be violated in the middle of the seven years, the first half of the Tribulation is a time of peace. That assumption has no basis in God's word.
The timing of the judgments of the Tribulation is clearly presented in the Book of Revelation as beginning with the initial heavenly events of Chapters 4 and 5. The scene then shifts to the earth beginning with Chapter 6 and the unfolding of the seven Seal Judgments. The peace the Antichrist proclaims is an illusion. There may be a short period of an unstable peace when the Antichrist signs the covenant with Israel, but this is a political peace. The signing of the covenant with Israel does not alter God's plans and He opens the seals and begins immediately to pour out His judgments. As the Seal Judgments are unleashed by the Lord Jesus Christ in the beginning of the Tribulation the earth enters a period of turmoil. The point of the Pre-Wrath position is that believers are raptured before the wrath of God is poured out. Pre-Wrath Rapture view addresses the outpouring of God's wrath, not the feigned offering of a peace treaty with Israel. This exposes another flaw in the Pre-Wrath view as it purports the supposed political peace means God is not pouring out His judgments until the middle or end of the seven years. Two things are going on at the beginning of the Tribulation. One, the Antichrist comes on the scene with great political power and signs a covenant with Israel. This brings only a semblance of peace as the Antichrist positions himself and gains greater power. Second, at the same time, God begins to pour out His wrath on the earth as the seven seal judgments are opened by the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore the appearance of peace in the beginning of the Tribulation does not mean God is not pouring out His wrath in the seal judgments.
Further it is God, who after the Rapture, stops the present retraining work of the Holy Spirit and allows Satan to go forth bringing destruction on humankind through his control of the Antichrist. In our present dispensation of the Church Age, the Holy Spirit is preventing or restraining Satan from unleashing his destructive wishes on the earth.
Paul reveals this in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-15,
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12)
God's plan is that He will use Satan and the Antichrist to bring His judgment on the earth during the seven year Tribulation. The restraining work of the Holy Spirit, which keeps him in check presently, will end as the seven years begin. Satan will then be allowed to rein destruction on the earth through the Antichrist. It is God who initiates the destruction on earth by allowing Satan and the Antichrist to work unrestrained. It is God who is now restraining Satan and this clearly shows that it is the action of God that allows him to rise to power and thus bring destruction to this present age.
Revelation 6:3-4 states again that "He", Christ, continues God's judgment and opens the second seal and initiates the second horsemen of red. Once again this is the action of God as power is "given" to this horseman by God to take peace from the earth and allow men to kill one another. 2 Thessalonians 2:6 reveals that the One who is restraining evil today is the Holy Spirit, but when the Antichrist is revealed, the restraining work of the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn. The "son of perdition" referred to as the lawless one and beast will be allowed by God to bring havoc on the earth. Once again it is God who is in full control and carrying out His plan and unleashing His wrath on the earth.
This Second Seal Judgment clearly removes political peace from the earth by allowing the Antichrist to bring havoc on earth. The supposed peace offered by the Antichrist when he signs the covenant with Israel has no basis in reality. The covenant brings no real or lasting peace. The times of the ending of peace begins with the opening of the second seal judgment with the beginning of the seven years of Tribulation. The Pre-Wrath position is that the first three and a half years of the seven year Tribulation will be a time of peace and it will not be a time of God's wrath. Clearly, this conclusion is in error and Revelation 6:4 refutes that false assertion. The third horseman described in Revelation 6:5-6, rides a black horse. He is allowed to bring famine on the earth by Jesus Christ when He opens the third seal judgment.
The third horseman described in Revelation 6:5-6, rides a black horse. Verse 6 states that "he" Jesus Christ opens the seal and thus He allows the Antichrist to bring famine on the earth by Jesus Christ when He opens the third seal judgment. Once again, God's word says that it is Jesus Christ that is causing His wrath to be brought on earth.
The forth horseman rides a pale horse and death and hell follows him. Bible says that Jesus Christ gives the pale horse rider the power to bring a tragic judgment on earth in which a fourth part of the earth is killed. One must note that each of these Seal Judgments are being opened in the first half of the Tribulation and the killing a fourth of the earth with the sword, hunger and death which includes even the animals of the earth. This cannot be viewed as a time of peace on earth. God is pouring out His wrath on the sinful and unbelieving of the earth. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is God's promise that believers in this dispensation will not go through His wrath, thus the timing of the Rapture must be before these events.
When Christ opens the fifth seal, John sees under the altar the souls of those killed for the word of God which they refused to reject. These believers whom the Antichrist will slay are in the first part of the Tribulation. Like the persecutions of the past and even those going on in the world today, God allows some believers to be killed for the testimony of Jesus Christ. True believers throughout history have died rather than deny the word of God. In every persecution, God always reaps a harvest of souls as the testimony of God's children allows men to see the truth of the life changing power of God in salvation. Because of the testimony of these slain saints of God many will be saved. Again, this is clearly the work of God and the Pre-Wrath view is grossly wrong in assuming that what is happening on the earth is the work of men and not the outpouring of God's wrath. Yes, the Antichrist and evil men are the ones who perpetrate this evil attack on those saved during the Tribulation, but it is only done as God allows it to happen.
The redeemed from every tribe, language, people and nation who stand before the throne in 7:9 are matched in the description of the 24 elders who are said to represent the Church. See 5:9. If so, the Church is incomplete without these tribulation saints. Notice the white robes in common between the martyrs in chapter 6, the tribulation saints of chapter 7 and the bride of the Lamb in chapter 19. Notice also the bride represented by 12 apostles and 12 tribes of Israel (12+12=24 as there are 24 elders) in 21:12-14. So, in Christ, God has formed one “new man” of both Israel and the Church. See Ephesians 2:15-16.
The chapter of Ephesians 2, taken in it's entire context, speaks of Gentiles who lived outside and apart from the Law and, as such, were at enmity with God, lived according to the ways of "this world" and according to the "prince of the power of the air", and were "children of wrath", now, because of Jesus' death on the cross, are now considered as living within the Law and no longer separate from those who lived by the Law as required by God before He brought the Messiah into the world. Anyone, Jew or Gentile, who comes to repentance through the shed blood of Christ is now righteous before God, and the barrier that existed before the death of Christ is now gone for those who know Christ as Savior because Christ is the fulfillment of the Law.
The fact that the Church is incomplete without the Tribulation saints is evidenced by the timing of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The wedding feast to which the saints are invited includes not only the Church as the bride of Christ, but others as well. The "others" include Old Testament saints who are going to be raised at the Second Coming, as well as the martyred dead of the Tribulation who form the multitude. As the angel told John to write: “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:9).
The "many" who are invited to attend the marriage feast on earth are all the Old Testament saints and the Tribulation saints resurrected after the Second Coming. While the marriage ceremony will take place in Heaven just before the Second Coming, the marriage feast will take place on earth after the Second Coming. In fact, it would seem that the marriage feast is what begins the Millennium or the Messianic Kingdom; the Church's co-reigning with the Messiah will start with a tremendous marriage feast.
So while Christ keeps His promise to the Church age saints to keep them from His wrath, His bride is not complete until the "fullness" of the Tribulation saints are in Heaven.
That’s incorrect. People on earth recognize after the signs in heaven that the Day of God’s wrath has finally arrived. Van Kampen’s distinguishing between the tribulation and wrath is valid. Believers go through tribulation as Christ said they would. Believers have been spared from God’s wrath. We can experience tribulation in God’s will. We can experience chastening and judgment due to disobedience, but never God’s wrath. The end of Revelation 6 is the first indication of God’s wrath beginning.
As shown in the post above, the Bible is clear on the fact that the entire seven years will be a time of God's wrath and judgement. Yes, we are told that believers will go through trials and tribulations as a result of living in a fallen world, but we are promised by Jesus, as evidenced in His Word, that we will be kept from the time of judgment that He will send on this world.
Revelation chapters 1-4 consist of the introduction and setting of the Book, letters to the churches, the apostle John being brought into Heaven and witnessing the throne of God and the events surrounding it. Chapter 5 continues from 4, and takes the reader to the throne itself and the opening of a scroll with seven seals, the beginning of the seal judgments. The judgment begins at the beginning of the seven-year Tribulation and continues until the end of that time.
In the Book of Revelation the time of God’s Wrath is first mentioned as having begun in chapter 5 in conjunction with the Seal Judgments. The Trumpet Judgments are also part of God’s wrath. They’re found in Rev. 8-9 so they also precede the Great Tribulation which begins with the anti-Christ’s ascension to world power in Rev. 13. Only the last cycle of Judgments, called the Seven Bowls of God’s Wrath in Rev. 16, occurs during the Great Tribulation. What the pre-wrath rapture folks don’t seem to understand is that with the Bowl Judgments His wrath is concluded, not begun. If the Church is going to be raptured before God’s Wrath begins, then the Rapture has to take place in Rev. 4, right where the pre-trib folks have said all along.
If you do a word study on 1 Thes. 1:10, you’ll see it promises that Jesus will rescue the Church from both the time and the place of God’s wrath in a manner that requires our prior departure. If so, the church has to be gone before the seal judgments begin, and sure enough you can see the Church in heaven in Rev. 5 singing the song of the redeemed. No other group can fit the description given in Rev. 5:9-10.
The 144,000 sealed are not specifically described as evangelizing. That could be true, but it is speculative. Further, it is exactly at this point where I believe the “rapture” must occur. This is implied as the catching up of believers to meet the Lord in the air is not specifically described anywhere in the book.
What is the role of these 144,000 Jews during the Tribulation? What is their purpose? All the text says is that they will be "bond-servants of God" (Revelation 7:3). But the context indicates that they will serve the Lord as evangelists because their description is followed immediately by the description of "a great multitude which no one can count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues" (Revelation 7:9). John sees this great host of people in Heaven standing before the throne of God, and he asks "Who are they, and from where have they come?" (Revelation 7:13). He is told that they are people who have come out of the Great Tribulation who "have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14).
In other words, this multitude of Gentiles are those who accept Jesus after the Rapture and who are martyred for their faith during the Tribulation. Because they are placed adjacent to the 144,000 believing Jews, the implication is that they are converted by the 144,000 Jews during the Tribulation.
“We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, (”and a door was opened in heaven”) at the last trump - for the trumpet SHALL sound (”a voice, as it were a trumpet”) and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, (”Come up hither”) and we shall be changed. (”and immediately I was in the Spirit”) (1st Corinthians 15:52, Revelation 4:1)”
But how is the “last trump” followed by an even later trump of seven angels beginning in Revelation 8. Perhaps because these seven angels collectively represent the last trump.
Because Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:52 and 1 Thes 4:16, said believers would be raptured at the sounding of a trump, many folks have tried to make it appear that the rapture trumps are the same trumpets found in Revelation 11:15-18, Joel 2:1, and Mat 24:31--which all occur during the tribulation.
When you have trumpets commonly used throughout the Bible, it's foolish to just assume any two of the 62 trumps or trumpets are prophetically related. To be able to make the claim that the tribulation trumpet soundings are the same as the rapture trumps, you would need a direct statement saying this is the case.
When Paul was writing to the Corinthians, he specifically said "the" last trump. During the Feast of Trumpets, the Jews blow short trumpet blasts. They end the feast with a long blast from what is called the last trump, which is blown the longest. Judaism has traditionally connected this last trump with the resurrection of the dead. Paul also made the connection. For many Christians, the association between the rapture and the Feast of Trumpets is so strong, they look for the rapture to someday occur on this feast.
Notice here also is where heaven becomes silent. When sinners repent there is rejoicing in heaven. But here heaven is silent. Why?
Most likely, this quiet demonstrates a sober, awestruck silence at the judgments to come, now that the seals are off and the scroll can be opened. This period of silence dramatically heightens the anticipation of what is about to happen. The time for talking is over; the time for judgment has begun. The scene reminds us of Habakkuk 2:20 — “But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.”
Interestingly, the term “keep” means to hang onto rather than be taken out of. It is the same word the Lord used when He prayed “I ask NOT that You take them out of the world, but that You KEEP them...” On the other hand we are told believers await for God’s Son returning from heaven, Who saves us from the coming wrath. See John 17:15 and 1 Thessalonians 1:10. The latter case indicates being taken out. The first clearly does not.
“Because you have kept the word of my patience”. “The Word of My patience” refers to the Word, the testimony of Scripture regarding the truth of Christ as the suffering, resurrected, and so also, the victorious Savior who endured the shame of rejection and the cross and who endures today as the resurrected and ascended Lord now sitting at God’s right hand (Heb. 1:3 with 12:1-3).
“Kept” is the Greek threw, “to guard, watch over, protect,” or “obey, observe” as with the principles and commands of Scripture.
What does it mean to keep the word of His endurance? It means to be a believer, one who has trusted in the person and work of Christ who now sits at God’s right hand for us.
Those who use John 17:15 to deny the rapture are simply not understanding the grammar of the sentence.
John 17:15:
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Jesus is not "actively praying" to keep us in the world. Look at the location of the word "not" in the sentence. It modifies "pray", it does not modify the phrase "take them out". Please note the difference if the verse said the following, "I pray that thou shouldest not take them out of the world". And please note, the verse does not say that at all.
Jesus, by saying what he is not praying for, is acknowledging that he could pray for God to take us out of the world, as will happen at the rapture as shown in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and John 14:2-3. But instead of praying for that, Jesus prayed for something greater that includes the promise to take us out of the world at the rapture, just like Solomon prayed for something greater than wealth, but also received wealth.
2 Chronicles 1:11: And God said to Solomon, Because this was in thine heart, and thou hast not asked riches, wealth, or honour, nor the life of thine enemies, neither yet hast asked long life; but hast asked wisdom and knowledge for thyself, that thou mayest judge my people, over whom I have made thee king:
2 Chronicles 1:12: Wisdom and knowledge is granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that have been before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like.
The point in John 17:15 is that what Jesus did pray for, to "keep them from the evil", is greater and better than a prayer to "take them out of the world", just like wisdom was the best thing to ask for, because it leads to all the rest. The prayer to "keep them from the evil" would include the rapture, but it is greater than just the rapture because it also is applicable for Christians of all ages, including saints in the tribulation who are protected by the seal of God.
The pretribulation rapture will successfully, for those caught up to heaven, "keep them from the evil" of the Antichrist, and from the evil of the tribulation.
Thus, the rapture is perfectly fitting with John 17:15, and is not contradicted by that verse at all. The verse supports pretrib doctrine. Just as wisdom included riches, wealth and honour, "keep them from the evil" includes the pretribulation rapture promise.
There are Jewish bibles that use both. The version you chose is not a good one. They use the words The head, and The heel. In the Hebrew there is no defintite article "the" in from of head and heel.
Another Jewish rendering
And I shall place hatred between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel.
That is much like KJV. The overall observation should be, it is not Satan. Back up one verse to 3:14
And the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed be you more than all the cattle and more than all the beasts of the field; you shall walk on your belly, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life.
So, in the verse previous, the snake is cursed more than cattle and beasts of the field.....Is that Satan? No...So, first He curses the snake...compared to other animals, then he curses the woman and then the man.
Here is a detailed look: Genesis 3:15
Hey, thanks for taking the time to make a detailed response. I have not had time to do more than skim over it yet, but I will try to study the references you cited shortly.
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