FROM:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1655&category=Real X-Files
Part 1: Highly Strange X-File of Edward Leverne Moragne, Ph.D.
© 2009 by Linda Moulton Howe
“After the military moved the three humanoid bodies out to Edwards AFB,
they were laid out one, two and three. It was like they were dormant in
suspended animation. But during the night when no one was watching,
Number Two got up and went to the other side of Number Three.
It was eerie!” - Edward L. Moragne, Ph.D., Physicist
December 28, 2009 Albuquerque, New Mexico - Twelve years ago on May 8, 1997, I was at the Houston, Texas, home of Edward Leverne Moragne, Ph.D., physicist and chemical engineer. Dr. Moragne was born on July 28, 1915, in Somerset, Texas, and received an M. S. in Chemical Engineering from Columbia University, New York, in 1941, and his Ph.D. in Physics from Columbia in 1943. Three years later in 1946, Dr. Moragne founded the Moragne Research & Development Co. in Houston. Dr. Moragne had been referenced to me as a scientist who claimed firsthand knowledge of non-human entities kept at Edwards AFB, California.
The story started when longtime UFO investigator and author, Leonard Stringfield, reprinted a report by another UFO investigator, Ron Madeley, who interviewed Edward L. Moragne in Houston on April 11, 1990. Ron Madeley used the pseudonym, “Dr. Epigoni” in place of Dr. Moragne's real name. Epigoni is the name included in Len Stringfield's 1991 UFO Crash Retrievals - The Inner Sanctum - Status Report 6. See: 060504 Earthfiles.
April 11, 1990, excerpt by Ron Madeley:
“Dr. Epigoni, as I will call him, is a retired physicist who is nearing 80 years in age and in fair, but steadily declining health. His knowledge might soon follow his name into quiet obscurity, even though he has worked closely with equally brilliant men - men like J. R. Oppenheimer; Albert Einstein; and Dr. Edward Teller, 'Father' of the hydrogen bomb.
As early as 1939, Epigoni was working with the great minds of the day at two research laboratories in New Jersey. That work eventually led to a U. S. Navy post under the direction of John von Neuman. Epigoni worked at the top of the Manhattan Project with the development and detonation of the atomic bomb and later the first hydrogen bomb.
Dr. Epigoni found himself involved in the research end, as opposed to the retrieval end, of crashed flying saucers. During the late 1960s and early 1970s, he was part of a team of scientists working at Edwards Air Force Base on a very special project. According to Epigoni, a flying saucer and its crew landed at Edwards A.F.B. The disc and its occupants were carted off to a secure building at the base for evaluation. It then became part of an ABOVE TOP SECRET project - something he calls ‘Blue Heaven.’”
Before I began my May 8, 1997, audiotaped interview with Dr. Moragne with his permission to use his real name, his wife, Kathryn, gave me a page that I believe Dr. Moragne had assembled to include his August 26, 1969, United States Patent for the invention of the Electromagnetic Separator. At the top of the page were the words, “The American College of Research Scientists and The National Science Foundation of America.” Below was a brief bibliography of his life next to his photograph. There are other photos of the July 16, 1945, first atomic test at White Sands Proving Ground, New Mexico, and photographs of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. The photographs and patent were followed by words that seemed to relate to perhaps an award Dr. Moragne had once received: “Presented to Edward L. Moragne, Ph.D., for exceptional technology in inventing the electro-magnetic process, which made the atomic bomb possible, and for being one of the thirteen original men who designed, constructed and exploded the first atom bomb on July 16, 1945, at White Sands, New Mexico.”
FOLLOWED BY PHOTOCOPIES OF DOCUMENTATION OF HIS EMPLOYMENT ETC.
. . .
I began my interview with Dr. Moragne at his Houston, Texas, home on May 8, 1997, by quoting from Ron Madeley's report: “Epigoni said that in the late 1960s and early 1970s, he was head of a scientific team working at Edwards AFB on a very special DOD project, which involved a flying saucer and its crew that landed at Edwards AFB. It landed northwest of the base in a flat part and a door opened and the ‘guys’ described as humanoids walked out and laid down on the ground. All of a sudden, the stairway closed back up and the legs (of craft) closed back up and the spacecraft sat back down on the ground. The humanoids just laid there until the disk and its occupants were carted off to a secure building on the base for scientific evaluation.”
IS THAT WHAT YOU REMEMBER?
Howe May 8, 1997, Interview with Edward Leverne Moragne, Ph.D.: “Well, that's true pretty much. But the legs didn't fold up. The stairway they came down slid back up and closed. Our military people tried every way in the world to get into that spacecraft. They even took electronic torches that use hydrogen and active bromides and electricity to try to cut the metal. But they never could cut it. That crew burned and boiled at that craft for a week or ten days.
FOR A WEEK OR TEN DAYS, OUR MILITARY TRIED TO CUT INTO THE SPACECRAFT?
Yeah, they tried all different spots along the craft.
WERE THERE ANY BURN MARKS OR CUTS?
No. You couldn't even tell where they were trying to burn that craft!
DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THAT CAUSED THE SPACECRAFT AND THE HUMANOIDS TO LAND AT EDWARDS AFB?
No, I wasn't out there at that time. I was in Chicago - we were working in the stadium in Chicago (Fermi lab).
WHEN DID THE SPACECRAFT AND HUMANOIDS LAND AT EDWARDS AFB?
Some time around 1964.
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN 20 YEARS AFTER THE MANHATTAN PROJECT TO DEVELOP THE ATOMIC BOMB?
That's right. The thing was that Albert Einstein had a theory that light was the source of all the laws of physics - that it would tie in with the planets, with the speed of sound, speed of light, tie in with everything. And if so, why shouldn't light tie in with human beings? There would be somewhere that light had something to do with us humans depending upon the genes we had in our bodies. That's why we had all those medical scientists up there working. We were trying to find things in the human system that no one had ever found before. We knew you are producing electricity.
IN OUR BODIES?
Yes, there is current running through humans. Einstein died (in 1955) still trying to work that theory out. But I have racks of papers that he and Fermi, myself and (Robert) Oppenheimer worked on. Edward Teller was distant from us always. He was trying to get a hydrogen bomb before we even got the plutonium bomb.
DO YOU REMEMBER HOW OLD YOU WERE WHEN THE SPACECRAFT AND HUMANOIDS LANDED AT EDWARDS AFB?
(We calculated he would have been 49-years-old in 1964). I'm pretty sure it was 1964 when we got that call from Edwards AFB because I had just bought a new car and they had changed the models. It was a Thunderbird and the prettiest car I'd ever seen. It was a low car and I'd gotten a light blue color. I was driving from Chicago. By the way, it didn't start at Edwards AFB. It was up there in Nevada in the desert where the big disc landed, out in the boondocks. There were some sheep ranchers that called the U. S. Army at the research station there near Las Vegas and told them this big, round thing had landed up there and they had three men laying on the ground. The ranchers thought they were human beings. I still say they were robots. They had no vein system at all. They were just filled up with liquid.
YOU MEAN LIKE A TUBE WITH LIQUID IN IT?
They felt like a body, like ours. They had muscle, tendons and everything else that you could feel. But if you made a slight cut in one, it was like a brownish-looking oil came out. The military tried to sew the cut up in a hurry, but they didn't have to sew it because the cut healed in just a matter of minutes.
THE SKIN JOINED TOGETHER WITHOUT A SCAR?
Yeah.
DID YOU SEE THE BODIES YOURSELF?
Yeah. I saw three of the humanoids at first when they were laying on the ground. The military moved the three bodies from the sheep ranch to Edwards AFB. The big disc they moved to Air Force 5.
WHAT IS AIR FORCE 5?
In the southern part of Nevada, it's a big, big hangar and the military moved the craft there.
. . .
MAP SHOWN
COULD WE GO BACK TO WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THE THREE HUMANOIDS AND THE DISC? WHAT WERE THE PHYSICAL FEATURES OF THE BEINGS?
Just like us, there wasn't much difference. The three were not identical. There were little differences just like people look different.
DID THE HUMANOIDS HAVE HAIR?
No, not a hair on their head.
WERE THE HEADS SHAPED ANY DIFFERENTLY FROM OURS?
I didn't think they were any different from ours. Their ears weren't any different from ours that I could see. I asked several of the doctors around there and they told me, ‘I know those beings can hear because they have ears designed for hearing.’ The doctors listened for a heartbeat, but they were not allowed to sick any needles into them.
DID THE DOCTORS HEAR HEARTBEATS?
No. Here's the thing that got me. After the military moved the three humanoid bodies out to Edwards AFB, they were laid out one, two and three. It was like they were dormant in suspended animation. But during the night when no one was watching, Number Two got up and went to the other side of Number Three. It was eerie.
WERE THE BODIES LAID OUT ON THE TARMAC AT EDWARDS AFB?
No, the sheep rancher found the three bodies laid out on the sandy ground up there in the northern Nevada boondocks.
DID THE RANCHER OR ANYONE SEE THE BEINGS LEAVE THE BIG DISC AND LAY DOWN ON THE GROUND?
There were two ranchers walking up over a bluff. And just as they got to the bottom, the two men saw this big thing coming in for a landing. The men were scared. The way they explained it to me was that one guy said, 'Let's run like hell!' But the other said, 'No, just stand still and don't let them know you're afraid. They might be coming out here to meet us. They might hand you a bag of gold or something else. You don't know what they're going to do.'
So the two ranchers stayed. They told me the first thing they saw was a stairs came down real slow and stopped on the ground. One of them said, 'See, they're going to come out.' And three guys came walking down the steps. As soon as the three beings were down on the ground, they all laid down together and the steps raised back up!
And here's another thing, too. When those steps were back up in the craft, the ranchers couldn't see much of a seam anywhere. When I got to look at the disc up close, it was like you had drawn a pencil line where the stairs had been. I could not feel a seam anywhere.
WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE THE THREE HUMANOIDS?
When I first saw them, they were still on the sheep ranch desert laying on the ground. The big disc had been there about five days when I drove there.
WHO ASKED YOU TO GO THERE?
The man who was in charge of UFOs at Edwards AFB, California.
DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT THE HUMANOID EYES?
I pushed the eyelid back a little on one and it didn't look any different from our eyes.
DR. MORAGNE, LET ME READ A LITTLE MORE FROM RON MADELY'S 1990 INTERVIEW WITH YOU.
From Ron Madeley's April 11, 1990, interview with ‘Dr. Epigoni’ (Dr. Moragne): “Dr. Epigoni said that the flying saucer was kept in a big hangar. ‘They have guards all around that thing, and I'm talking about guards! And there isn't any way you can get through. I don't care what you do - they've got all types of security there. You've got four rows of guards before you get to where the humanoids are kept and twelve damn big fences electrified.’ Dr. Epigoni said he told a Major General in the hangar that he wanted to feel the craft and see if he could feel an opening. The general told Dr. Epigoni that he could feel if he wanted to, but it's as smooth as it is anywhere else. Dr. Epigoni found there were no seams in the disc craft at all. ‘I figured it had some kind of molecular structure in which it would open up and when it would close, it would reseal itself.’”
The military also said you could shine a light down in the ceiling part of the big disc and they could see three more humanoids sitting in there. I never saw them because I never climbed up on the disc to the top to shine a light down inside.
BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU EXAMINED THE THREE BEINGS, FELT THEM, AND SAID THEIR EYES WERE LIKE A DOG'S - ONLY ONE COLOR?
They were. The eyes had one color with a little pupil in the middle like our eyes. But our eyes have whites around the irises. Those eyes were all one color without white to the sides.
THEN THE HUMANOID EYES WERE NOT REALLY HUMAN?
Well, they had a pupil like ours. The pupils were a kind of gray color and the rest of the eye was brown.
A SOLID BROWN EYE?
Yeah. I remember that the humanoids' pupils were a little, grayish-brown tinged thing and in the middle of that pupil was a lens like a cat's eye - a vertical slit.
VERTICAL PUPILS. AND NO HAIR?
Right.
NOSE, MOUTH, TEETH?
Yes, same as ours, including teeth.
CLOTHES?
They had little short pants that were tight-fitting and a tight-fitting top like a leotard with a sleeveless weskit over it.
WHAT COLOR WAS THEIR SKIN?
A light tan, light brownish.
HOW MANY FINGERS AND TOES?
Same as us, and they had fingernails either filed real close or they didn't grow. I don't know.
BETWEEN 1964 AND 1997, WHERE ARE THOSE BODIES NOW?
I've talked with many people who have been out there and studied them. The military keeps switching those bodies around and then leave them to see what happens. So far, humans say they have never seen the bodies move, but the bodies return to a particular one, two, three order. Whether one man gets up and lays in a new position or something lifts him up and puts him in a different order - the military have never been able to see that happen.
THE HUMANOIDS STILL KEEP MOVING AROUND?
Yeah, if you move one and put him over there on the other side where he didn't belong, apparently, he will be back on the other side.
WHERE DID EDWARDS AFB KEEP THE HUMANOID BODIES?
I think it was called Hangar 8, and as far as I know, the bodies are still there.
ANY INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE THE CRAFT AND HUMANOIDS CAME FROM?
No.
. . .
[some discussion on efforts to investigate the craft with acids that would etch glass but had no effect on the craft.]
. . . THEN PART 1 ENDED.
from:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1656&category=Real+X-Files
Part 2: Highly Strange X-File of Edward Leverne Moragne, Ph.D.
© 2009 by Linda Moulton Howe
“The Edwards AFB people said that there were little slits up there
in a narrow rise only about 8 or 10 inches high atop the disc. It was through
the slits they could shine lights and saw three humanoids sitting inside
at what looked like an operating console.” - Edward L. Moragne, Ph.D., Physicist
. . .
December 29, 2009 Albuquerque, New Mexico - Continuation of Linda Moulton Howe's May 8, 1997, interview with Edward Leverne Moragne, Ph.D., at his Houston, Texas, home:
Howe May 8, 1997, Interview with Edward Leverne Moragne, Ph.D.: “DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE BOTTOM OF THE BIG DISC CRAFT LOOKED LIKE THAT CAME DOWN IN THE NEVADA DESERT IN 1964?
It was a big oval on the bottom and on the top.
WHAT THE SURFACE LIKE?
Bright silver-colored metal, looked sort of like bright stainless steel.
THAT SOUNDS SOLID. HOW DID THE MILITARY AND SCIENTISTS LOOK INTO THE TOP PART AND SEE THREE MORE HUMANOID BODIES AS YOU DESCRIBED?
The Edwards AFB people said that there were little slits up there in a narrow rise only about 8 or 10 inches high atop the disc. It was through the slits they could shine lights and saw three humanoids sitting inside at what looked like an operating console.
LIKE THE HUMANOIDS WERE IN SUSPENDED ANIMATION? OR WERE THEY MOVING?
They were just sitting there, so they would have to have been in suspended animation like the other ones that laid down in the desert, I guess. Everyone had a hard time with that concept because no one thought that could be done to a human being. We've got to feed all our tissues or they will die. What was feeding those beings inside the top of the disc and those that laid down on the ground?
. . .
DID THE HUMANOIDS BREATHE?
No, they didn't breathe at all.
HEART BEAT?
No heart beat.
YET, THOSE BEINGS COULD GET UP AND MOVE?
I think they were robots, controlled by some distant planet or spacecraft or something, because those bodies in suspended animation could be brought back to life in an instant and probably put the big disc right back into service. I don't know why that didn't happen.
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARRIVED AND WENT INTO SUSPENDED ANIMATION?
None of the people I knew at Edwards AFB found out. I think they are still trying to find out. The last grilling I took with the space agency was that the space agency set up a department to investigate spacecraft and things like flying saucers.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NASA?
Yes.
DID DAVIS AND DAVID WORK FOR NASA?
I never did find out who exactly they worked for because I was introduced to a lot of professors and doctors from universities all over the United States trying to study the disc and the humanoids.
WHEN YOU WERE CALLED IN FROM CHICAGO TO SEE THE BODIES AND SPACECRAFT, WHAT DID THE AUTHORITIES WANT YOU TO DO?
They put it to me this way: ‘Were those bodies burned?’ I said, ‘No.’
‘Was there any nuclear radiation around the craft that would hurt military or scientists who walked around it?’
I got two scintillators that I had designed and built myself to test for radiation. And we could not find any form of radiation there whatsoever.
WHAT ELSE DID THE AUTHORITIES WANT YOU TO DO?
They wanted me to look at the craft and see if I could determine what was causing it to travel at the immense speed it had traveled and how could it turn on a 90-degree angle at those very high speeds.
SO THE MILITARY HAD TRACKED THE CRAFT ON RADAR?
Well, they had some radar images that showed craft doing such maneuvers, but not the specific disc that came down in the Nevada desert that the humanoids came out of and laid down on the ground.
. . .
DID ANYBODY TELL YOU THAT THE U. S. HAS OTHER NON-HUMAN BODIES AND CRAFT THAT LOOK DIFFERENT THAN THE DISC AND ITS HUMANOIDS THAT YOU SAW?
Yeah, I heard that, but I haven't seen other craft and bodies. I do remember them talking about other alien beings that had Chinese-looking eyes, slanted, and had no ears, no holes for a nose and not much of a mouth. I wondered if those robots laying there might not even need the mouths they had! I don't know. Maybe cosmetic camouflage?
LET'S GO BACK TO 1964 WHEN YOU WERE IN THE NEVADA DESERT FIRST. WHAT HAPPENED?
Well, I was told the disc was going to be moved to Edwards AFB for further research. But then everyone realized it would not fit in the hangars there, which were not large enough to fit around the big disc.
HOW LARGE WAS THE CRAFT?
The disc was about twice the width of our biggest bombers at the time - at least as long as a football field (100 yards or some 300 feet). So, I was told the disc would be taken to Air Force 5 in southern Nevada and as soon as it was there, they would send for me and I could really test it. I figured I would have a free hand. But when I went down there, I was told, ‘No, don't touch that. Don't do this. Don't do that.’
I said, ‘You told me to come down here and check the thing out. So, why don't you let me do that?’
The military guy said, ‘There are certain things we've already checked and there's no use your looking at them.’
I said, ‘If you already knew, what the hell am I doing down here?’
‘Well, the thing is that maybe you can discover something we haven't discovered.’
‘How can I do that if I can't be free to explore and investigate? I would like to look in that window that the scientists looked in and saw those three guys sitting in there. I'd like to see what the instrumentation looks like.’ But for some unknown reason, he wouldn't let me do that. He said it was not necessary and I was not going to beg them to do anything. In fact, I became anxious to get out of there.
. . .
They said they saw a lot of instruments that had knobs on them, but I don't remember about hand prints. They did say that if it were possible to open that craft up ever again and/or those humanoids in there came out or the three on the ground went back in - then the scientists figured those humanoids would take off and that would be the end of that.
There was another odd hypothesis - those scientists figured that when those humanoids came down into the Nevada desert, they brought down some transparent individuals with them who are out seeing Earth to find out what's going on here. But we can't see the explorers who control the humanoid robots tending the disc! Those men had more phenomenal theories than anyone in my life!
YOU MEAN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF TRANSPARENT BEINGS MOVING AROUND ON OUR PLANET?
Yes. That was a conversation with an Army military intelligence doctor named Graham. He was a real regular fellow, very nice. He did not wear a uniform. He was one of the top men in that military intelligence unit.
DID GRAHAM TELL YOU ABOUT ANY OTHER BEINGS AND CRAFT HE HAD SEEN?
No, but he said he had gone to 40/11 sites.
WHAT DOES 40/11 MEAN?
It means sites where spacecraft had landed. I don't know how many. Graham said that out of all of them, he had seen where some had scraped the ground. And two or three others you could see where the craft hit the ground. So, the big disc in the Nevada desert was one of the only ones he had seen that appeared to have actually landed.
. . .
Then he said, ‘They set me in a room and put my wife in another compartment. I could see her sitting right there! And those ‘people’ put all kinds of electrodes on our heads, backs and stomachs and we were there for about two minutes. Then they took the electrodes off and put us back in our car and we were driving on our way again.’
YOU HEARD THIS AT EDWARDS AFB?
Right. Those people in Pueblo reported what happened to someone in the government. Then the government turned around and told them they were lying. I don't know.
. . .
WHAT DID THE CRAFT'S SURFACE FEEL LIKE?
Like smooth stainless steel, but it wasn't. Any time you take a carbon torch and hit a piece of stainless steel, you've got a mass of molten metal there. But we hit that surface with not only a carbon torch, we put carbon-hydrogen arcs on that thing for hours upon hours and that disc surface never even got red hot!
DID YOU EVER LEARN WHAT COULD BE SO RESISTANT?
No, that's why the authorities wanted a piece of the craft cut off so they could analyze it.
BUT HOW COULD ANYTHING BE CUT OFF FROM METAL THAT CARBON ARCS CAN'T CUT?
Well, I don't know, but that's why we were trying to cut it. We knew we could not use saws. I watched one saw just sit there running on the disc's surface like you were polishing with the blades! And we used a diamond saw that never showed a scratch. The military tried to use the latest things they could think of to get into that disc.”
. . .
The end of Part 2