On intemperate and indiscreet zeal. (The Primary Fault of many Religion Forum posters)

Various | Various | Various

[presently no screen name]

Perhaps Caucus was calling.

[betty boop]

I would have loved to sat in on the discussions of CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien.

Jerry Walls and Scott Burson shed some light here:

...[O]ne of the factors that contributed to [Lewis'] adolescent apostasy was his inability to reconcile the truth of Christianity with the falsehood of every other religion and philosophy. With the help of colleagues J. R. R. Tolkien and Hugo Dyson a few nights prior to his conversion, Lewis came to see the overarching hand of God in not only the history of Christianity but other belief systems as well. The myth of the dying and rising corn gods in pagan religions did not nullify the claim that Jesus Christ died and rose again. On the contrary, these pagan myths unwittingly worked to reinforce the truth of the Christian account. According to Tolkien and Dyson, a loving God has been working diligently to prepare each and every culture for the gospel of his son. In so doing, mythical stories have been given to anticipate or preconfigure a factual, historical outworking. Christianity is not only the fulfillment of Judaism, it is also the fulfillment of all other religious and philosophical systems.

This new angle of vision on the problem of exclusivity made sense to Lewis. Christianity is indeed true, but that does not mean all other worldviews are entirely false. All God's creation has been given some measure of insight, however limited or opaque, for the purpose of pointing to the fullest expression of divinity in the person of Jesus Christ.

As Lewis realized how Christianity and other belief systems could harmoniously dovetail at certain points, the lifelong tension between reason and imagination began to subside as well. Under the Christian rubric, both hemispheres of the brain could harmoniously coexist. And, most important, Lewis came to realize that Joy is not an end unto itself but merely a pointer to guide us further up and further in. Lewis was eager to communicate this epiphany to any who would listen. [p. 30]

If Lewis could come to see other traditions and philosophies so charitably, then maybe we Christians might do likewise in our conversations with each other.

And you are so right — "You don't have to be identical to love and respect someone." If our love and respect extended toward others depends on their agreeing with us 100%, then probably we will be unable to love anybody; and perhaps we will consequently die both unloved and unrespected by anybody ourselves....

Just a thought. Thank you so very much for writing, dear brother in Christ!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“But all early Christians were Catholic. There was no other Christian Church until 1054.”

Brian, would the Eastern Orthodox Church agree with those two
sentences? I’m betting not, though I’m not a member of the
Eastern Orthodox Church.

While the 1054 date is when the Roman Catholic Church parted
ways with the Orthodox Church, they both existed before that
date. It was the exertion of the primacy of the Bishop of
Rome and one other issue that caused the split.

My understanding was that the Eastern Churches rejected
that claim of primacy to which others must bow down.

best,
ampu

[Logophile]

No, you asked me to clarify what I said, which I did. Are you unable to work past the basics?

More evasion.

It was a simple question, really: Do you think I have been lying to you?

Instead of answering yes or no, you wrote, "Truth thru an eyedropper."

When asked to clarify, you quoted Robert Millet, who is not a party to this conversation. You also quoted a paragraph from the missionary manual, followed up by a tendentious interpretation of that paragraph. Those are red herrings.

Do you think I have been lying to you?

[Tennessee Nana]

Log to Zilla: "You are being evasive."

Nana to Log: "Dont be evasive about this question."

____________________________________________________

Just how did Jesus "lose" His Bride ???

[Tennessee Nana]

Log to Zilla: "You are being evasive."

Nana to Log: "Dont be evasive about this question."

____________________________________________________

Just how did Jesus "lose" His Bride ???

[Elsie]

...God chose two of His children, Adam and Eve...

So much for that Dust and RIB story!

[Elsie]

 

When asked to clarify, you quoted Robert Millet, who is not a party to this conversation.

 

Ask and you shall receive...

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[Mad Dawg]

Needs more colors.

Other than that, wow!

[Elsie]

Do you think I have been lying to you?

They can't SAY it, if they DO; for you KNOW that calling someone a LIAR on FR is a no-no.

Why do you keep pushing it?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Do you think I have been lying to you?”

Better questions:

Were you lying?
Were you telling the whole truth?
Are you leaving out additional information that would give people a different understanding, if they knew it?

Hmmmmmmmmm???

[Quix]

However, that’s exactly the sort of thing that many RC’s throw at Proddys hereon, routinely, and that very harshly so.

[Quix]

Some levels of things warrant reform.

Some levels of things warrant wholesale revolt.

I’d think that Conservatives in the current context would understand that excruciatingly well.

[Buggman]

The original word, personna, meant a role rather than an independent being--i.e., there is One God eternally revealed in three distinct roles--but I like the way you separate the concept of self-distinction from the concept of Being. Certainly, there is personification in the Three Roles, with conversation back-and-forth.

My primary problem with the casual use of the word "Persons" is that it gives the distinct impression of three independent beings standing around having a conversation. The concept of the Son and Spirit being subsumed in the Father is lost, and tri-theism all-too-quickly rears its ugly head.

I really don't think we have a substantial disagreement here--just different preferences in the way we're phrasing it.

Shalom.

[Quix]

I’ve been repeatedly gracious when I could be so in clear conscience.

I expect to continue to be so.

Some attitudes and some outrageous assertions beg for quite a different sort of reply.

[Quix]

ROTFLOL!

[Quix]

Truly, I wish we did not have hyphenated Christians.
Ditto, but I do think I understand somewhat about the Holy One’s wisdom in creating the divisions.

Let me refer to the Messianic movement as a microcosm of the issue for a moment. The truth is, there is no Messianic movement. There is a whole spectrum if mini-movements that gather under the big tent of “Messianic,” spanning from Hebrew Roots Christianity to Messianic Orthodox Judaism (yes, they do exist). In that mix you have your Two-House/Ephramites, your Sacred Namers, your Pentecostals who like using a few Hebrew words, and your outright wacked-out cults.

And because of that, we’ve packed several centuries of theological development into a few decades.

As I said in my other post, I think there is value in the wrestling with God’s Word, and that calls to unity have a tendency to supress that wrestling in favor of not rocking the boat.

So the issue of hyphenation really doesn’t bother me all that much. It’s not important that my name is Michael, my brother’s name is Jonathan, and my other brother’s name is Joshua. It’s not divisive that we have different personalities, interests, and habits. Sometimes those differences will lead to knock-down-drag-out fights. That doesn’t divide the family. What matters is whether we are all Buggs, and whether we are all brothers.

What matters is not an outward facade of unity in the Body, or whether we sometimes argue, but whether we are really, truly and in our hearts brethren.

Shalom.

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INDEED.

[Quix]

VERY WELL PUT.

MUCH AGREE.

[Quix]

INDEED.

[Quix]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!