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Posted on 07/06/2010 6:54:33 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
Is ex cathedra truth?
Does the Roman Catholic Church attempt to smite Christ's Words by adding on to salvation requirements 1800 years after the Cruxifiction/Resurrection/Pentecost?
Pay close attention to the end of Ineffablis Deus as well as Munificentissimus Deus and tell me why silence from Christ, the Apostles, as well as speculation by early Church Fathers throughout the centuries, suddenly turned into “truth” which the condemns the man.
Give me one 1st century primary source for both of those “truths” and more importantly, a requirement for salvation from Christ Words. The Yoke is easy, not some confusing work in progress, for example, 1800 years LATER in which Ineffablis Deus and the Munificentissimus Deus becomes testimony to the befuddlement of the Gospel message. And Roman Cathoilics say the Proddies are a confusing bunch, jeez.
Are the Church Fathers who rejected those pseudo superstitions, developed from supposed works of heresy by the way, in hell or grandfathered in? I know, they were not aware of what the power of ex catherdra could “pronounce” so absolved out of ignorance. After all, they lived in a time of Spiritual consensus, not Spiritual tyranny from a man politically elected from fellow "infallibles", sitting in the middle of Rome with his own sovereign area.
I guess in the Roman Catholic persuasion, it is about tradition, pseudo as well as historical, that is shaped somewhat to ways that the earthly “wind is blowing” (Vatican I/II) and what ever carrot on the stick ex catherdra says. I do not call that truth, more like folly, a silent work in progress which is the opposite of Jesus Christ's Words and Deeds. Truth is consistent, not events formulated 400 years after the supposed event, taken somewhat serious 300 years later, then becomes an act of supposed condemnation 1100 years later. I would take Epiphanius more seriously than some Cardinal who won a popularity contest any day.
So I’ll add that some people think they are worshipping God but they SEEM, at least, to put their trust in their devotions. To me, one hint of this is the tendency I see to multiply and, what, ramify things like the Rosary.
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Well said. I grew up in Catholic school and had an Easter Orthodox stepfather and know exactly what you are talking about.
I know several Catholics who share your view and have the correct view concerning the cultus of the Saints and place of Mary. While I do know some Catholics who in actuality do worship Mary or some Saints, those who put them or the RC church above Christ, I know just as many (if not more) who do not.
And to be fair, I see similar behavior and ‘idol worship’ (even if the ‘idols’ are different) throughout the Body of Christ - Baptists, Lutherans, Evangelicals - who adore and worship the TRADITIONS rather than the LORD, and that is dangerous no matter what church you attend. KJV worship is a good example.
From what I see in your posts, you have a good grasp on the role of Saints and your relationship to Christ and do not appear to be in the above category. I commend you.
THX FOR YOUR KIND REPLY.
I don’t know that I have anything to add.
Actually Reaganaut, I was stating a concern over those that would consistently misrepresent our views & doctrines as you did recently w/ your inference that our leaders & church taught & accepted the “white horse prophecy” as doctrine, etc. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth, yet thet didn’t seem to stop you.
Godzilla has been caught doing likewise w/ incomplete & partial quotes that didn’t tell the whole story on this very thread. It’s sad that some of you feel the necessity to conduct yourselves in such a way. And to what end? The Lord’s work? Do you really feel the Lord approves of that conduct. Rarely, if ever, are apologies forthcoming. It’s just on to the next misrepresentation.
Others have asked as to why we no longer debate you folks as much anymore. That’s one of the big reasons. Who wants to spend day after day doing the research to find your fallacies, misrepresentations, distortions, etc.? I for one, no longer have the time nor the inclination, as I suspect is true for others here. The fallacy of the “white horse prophecy” has been discussed here before, but that didn’t stop you from bringing it up once again, even though it has been thoroughly debunked. That’s how you folks roll.
If caught in deception, wait a month or two, then bring it up again w/ a different group seems to be your strategy. Trust me, you’re losing more to your cause than you’re gaining. To each his own.
It’s really a shame. Most of you folks are really very bright. The intellectual discussions we could have would be very interesting to say the least. But often, you folks refuse to play above board.
I won’t play in the sandbox. It’s all yours. Carry on.
I mostly agree.
. . . though not precisely in all the critical definitions. LOL.
In this I think you are right....we are seeing the splits occurring in several branches of Christianity as a result of this infiltration... and rightfully so as the gays and atheists make inroads into the body of believers as well as other religious forms and practices which are often times pagan....new age comes to mind.
My brothers church recently left and now have a church of their own. Interesting is the Baptist church had helped them make this transition....and most interesting was in the dedication both denominations came together to celebrate. As the Pastor spoke thanking the Baptist Minister the Baptist Minister was quick to say ..."It is not us to thank but we you.. for showing us how it's done if the time comes where we might have to do the same."
AGREED.
DOH! RIGHT! THE OLD JOKE! LOL.
In both tone and content, it is perfectly illustrative of the reason this forum frequently descends into "food fights".
I think we’d be doin’ it wrong if we were widely acclaimed on all sides.
. . . as Scripture indicates.
Wise perspective for any denomination, congregation.
Wise perspective for any denomination, congregation.
More Spirit birthed wisdom through you. Thx.
I think I understood that, already. LOL.
Certainly it does. Let's look at the analogous situation which you bring up, that of the scribes and Pharisees:
Matthew 23:2,3Also, if we're going to pretend to rigor, let's be careful. Our Catholic scoundrels are REAL scoundrels. But not all the pipes are rusty. Some might seem to be solid gold.(2) "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat;
(3) so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice."
There's a kind of temptation to circularity which starts with the perception that there are some abuses in the Catholic Church, then disagres with the teaching because of the abusers, and then finally discounts the good pipes because they teach what was taught by the rusty ones.
It seems like a reasonable process, BUT the data are obscured. Sometimes purposefully.
For example I just watched a National Geographic video which attributed the destruction of Mayan codices to "The Spanish Inquisition." Now there may have been Spaniards and there may have been an inquisition, but it wasn't the Spanish Inquisition.
But in this way, the persistent cultural unexamined concepts form an impressions so strong and fixed that when I mention my friends who actually look into the Spanish Inquisition, I am met not with historical counter-argument but with scorn.
"Everybody KNOWS" that the Spanish Inquisition was the focus of evil in its time, so not only does no one need to check it out, but those who do won't be listened to.
In this context, I am not swayed by tales of a few wicked clerics. I personally KNOW wicked non-Catholic clerics whose denominations were as cluck-headed as any Catholic bishop in dealing with them.
AND, I don't believe the liberal media, so I don't believe all the nonsense people take for granted about us.
INDEED.
Being aware of or acknowledging the history of corruption means nothing because the corruption means nothing, The Church is THE CHURCH, right?
The lesson of the nation of Israel has been missed entirely.
CLICKABLE . . . by putting an ENTER immediately after the last character in the link.
THX1138
The bottom line is that if you take a stand for the light, you should be prepared to receive resistance from the darkness.
INDEED
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