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To: kosta50
“James 4:7 says “resist the devil,” but none of the disciples had the Holy Spirit at the time of Judas’ betrayal, so that was not possible, was it?”

The holy spirit was operative. Mary became pregnant, Elizabeth was “filled with holy spirit, and the disciples when sent out, would have God's spirit speaking in them. (Luke chapter 1 and Matt. 10:20)
God's spirit was able to do whatever He wished.

“If Judas did not act exactly as God wanted, at the given hour, if it was left up to his “free will” and how he “felt about it,” then the whole thing would have been uncertain. Things simply had to play out exactly as they played out, like a scripted movie, where actors act their part, or else the movie ends up nowhere.”

Nope, God can accomplish His will no matter who does what.
When the Israelites made the golden calf God said He would wipe all of them out and makes a nation from Moses. God thereby would keep His promise to Abraham even if He did through Moses.
What God says will take place, will. (Isa. 55:11)

Repentance first, then baptism. (Acts 2:38)
and God is telling everyone everywhere to repent. (Acts 17:30)

“Yes, God leads his slaves (Greek: douloi, or obligate servants), the slaves for righteousness. Where is their “freedom” to resist. Those who do were never of his flock to begin with, or so the Bible says, so citing examples of apostates doesn't prove free will.”

Romans 2:4 was directed to those (”O man, whoever you are”) who were going receive an adverse judgment for their actions unless they repented and Paul said God was leading them by being long-suffering and kind.

As Joshua said to the nation of Israel, God's covenant people, ‘choose for yourselves whom you will serve’ but he was going to serve God. (Josh. 24:15)

Lots of free will there. If they couldn't choose, didn't have the ability to exercise free will, then what was Joshua asking of them?

1,111 posted on 07/17/2010 1:47:33 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
The holy spirit was operative...[in] the disciples when sent out, would have God's spirit speaking in them. (Luke chapter 1 and Matt. 10:20)

Yes, operative in a sense that he was merely speaking through them as through megaphones. They were not yet "born again" so as to be able to repent. The disciples did not receive the Spirit until Jesus breathed on them. (John 20:22)

Nope, God can accomplish His will no matter who does what.

But the drama told in the Bible shows that he chose a specific chain of events, time, places and individuals in order to do that. Otherwise you have God second-guessing his own creation.

Romans 2:4 was directed to those (”O man, whoever you are”) who were going receive an adverse judgment for their actions unless they repented

That does not change the basic theme of the Bible drama that everything happens according to God's plan,  when, where and by whom God willed it, even if some players spoke in tems of their free will. None of us thinks we are walking on a giant ball called the Earth. From our perspective, the earth is deifnitely flat. The big picture, however, says otherwise.

As Joshua said to the nation of Israel, God's covenant people, ‘choose for yourselves whom you will serve’ but he was going to serve God. (Josh. 24:15)...Lots of free will there

From the human point of view. Yet, the concept of God's immutable and perfect plan leads one to admit that everything that happens, every action, every event, is what God willed, or else God is not in control. He wrote the script and actors merely play their part, or else the Bible drama happened by chance. The free will in this case is an illusion.

1,134 posted on 07/18/2010 7:31:35 AM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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