Posted on 06/13/2010 12:16:24 PM PDT by markomalley
.- Thousands of pilgrims and faithful gathered at noon Sunday in St. Peter’s Square to pray the Angelus with the Holy Father. Before the prayer, he said that the fruits of the recently ended Year for Priests could never be measured, but are already visible and will continue to be ever more so.
“The priest is a gift from the heart of Christ, a gift for the Church and for the world. From the heart of the Son of God, overflowing with love, all the goods of the Church spring forth,” proclaimed Pope Benedict XVI. “One of those goods is the vocations of those men who, conquered by the Lord Jesus, leave everything behind to dedicate themselves completely to the Christian community, following the example of the Good Shepherd.”
The Holy Father described the priest as having been formed by “the same charity of Christ, that love which compelled him to give his life for his friends and to forgive his enemies.”
“Therefore,” he continued, “priests are the primary builders of the civilization of love.”
Benedict XVI exhorted priests to always seek the intercession of St. John Marie Vianney, whose prayer, the “Act of Love,” was prayed frequently during the Year for Priests, and “continues to fuel our dialogue with God.”
The pontiff also spoke about the close of the Year for Priests, which took place this past week and culminated with the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. He emphasized “the unforgettable days in the presence of more than 15,000 priests from around the world.”
The feast of the Sacred Heart is traditionally a “day of priestly holiness,” but this time it was especially so, Benedict XVI remarked.
Pope Benedict concluded his comments by noting that, in contemplating history, “one observes so many pages of authentic social and spiritual renewal which have been written by the decisive contribution of Catholic priests.” These were inspired “only by their passion for the Gospel and for mankind, for his true civil and religious freedom.”
“So many initiatives that promote the entire human being have begun with the intuition of a priestly heart,” he exclaimed.
The Pope then prayed the Angelus, greeted those present in various languages, and imparted his apostolic blessing.
In the eucharist we receive Chriat in the most complete and intimate way, by eating His body, as He commanded, but we also are in Christ’s presence at all times.
Are you enjoying this charade a little too much? Are you really able to accept the proof shown to you or have you already made up your mind one way and refuse to admit you could be wrong? I HAVE read the Scriptures including all the writings from Paul and I see NO contradiction nor ignorance of the true nature of God which includes the concept of the triune nature.
Staying in Romans, I came across another passage that seems to answer your request. It is:
Romans 15:14-22
14I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another. 15I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me 16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
17Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. 18I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— 19by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ. 20It has always been my ambition to preach the gospel where Christ was not known, so that I would not be building on someone else's foundation. 21Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."
22This is why I have often been hindered from coming to you.
In this passage alone, you've got God the Father, Jesus Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit and Paul, with the "priestly" duty of proclaiming the gospel of God. He glories in Jesus Christ in his service to God and will not even try to speak of anything else but what Christ has accomplished THROUGH him by the power of signs and miracles through the Holy Spirit.
Are you wanting a "thus sayeth the Lord" kinda quote? Maybe that's not how the Lord worked with Paul. He does use other scripture to prove his teaching quite frequently. You know "it is written", that kind of thing. He speaks quite a lot about how the Holy Spirit is in us so that we may understand what God has freely given us "expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words". (I Cor. 2:12,13). The last few verses of Romans says:
Romans 16:25-27
25Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him— 27to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
One or the other.
MarkBsnr wrote:
“Questions? Well, how about this instead: the nature of Nicene Trinitarianism was not understood by the Apostles and the early Church and most definitely not by Paul. It was developed over 3 1/2 centuries by the Church and declared doctrine at Nicea.”
So, Mark, what are you asserting here? Why don’t you be candid with all of us and just answer these simple questions: Did the Triune God become God in 325 A.D. by virtue of the creed confessing faith in Him formulated at Nicaea? Did no one believe in Him before that? Did no one understand Him to be Triune before that?
This would require you to type three words to respond. Yes/no. Yes/no. Yes/no.
There are no tricks here, just a straight-up request to answer three simple questions, one word each (More if you feel it necessary).
Amen. One good thing that results from our RC FRiends’ idiotic assertions is that they sharpen our defense of the faith.
Charade? Christianity is not a charade to we Christians.
Are you really able to accept the proof shown to you or have you already made up your mind one way and refuse to admit you could be wrong? I HAVE read the Scriptures including all the writings from Paul and I see NO contradiction nor ignorance of the true nature of God which includes the concept of the triune nature.
Paul calls Jesus a man on a number of occasions. You have not and neither has anybody else given the Nicene formula of the Trinity from Paul. Romans 15:14-22 does not say that God is equal to Jesus Christ and equal to the Holy Spirit co eternal? Where does it say it? Not your quoted verses. You say that it exists. Where?
In this passage alone, you've got God the Father, Jesus Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit
You have the words but not the definitions. The LDS use the same words, but neither I nor any Christian believes that the definitions are the same. The same thing with a poster on this thread that believes that the Christian feast of Pentecost is the same as the Jewish feast of Shavuot, because he found a translation that called the Shavuot Pentecost. I really look on it as much the same thing.
Are you wanting a "thus sayeth the Lord" kinda quote? Maybe that's not how the Lord worked with Paul. He does use other scripture to prove his teaching quite frequently. You know "it is written", that kind of thing. He speaks quite a lot about how the Holy Spirit is in us so that we may understand what God has freely given us "expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words". (I Cor. 2:12,13).
Maybe? Come on. You guys are a rah rah Paulian crowd. I didn't think that there were any maybes regarding Paul. Are there?
Anyhow, where are the proofs of the Nicene Creed from Paul? Not in Romans...
“In the eucharist we receive Chriat in the most complete and intimate way,”
Scrripture says that is impossible.
1 Tim.6:14-16, “That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
"But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established". (Matthew 18:16).
"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which He had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy Scriptures.) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh: And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of Holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 1: 1-7).
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen". (2 Cor. 13:14).
"This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established". (2 Cor. 13:1).
If, *in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses would every word be established*,and those *witnesses were God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit*, why would the Disciples, the early Church, and Paul not understand *the Trinity*? Why would there be need for the Church to establish this belief? Actually, I think the Trinity is very clear in scripture, in the light of 2 or 3 witnesses, establishing every word.
1. No. God IS. Man tries to understand God.
2. The Jews believed in God in BC; after Christ, that belief extended to some of the Greeks and other Gentiles. The beliefs diverged beginning in Acts 2: during and after Pentecost. The expulsion of the Judaizers marked a significant point in the divergence. Paul correcting Peter on Christian versus Jewish practice was another milestone.
3. Not at first. The Jewish Apostles didn't really understand Him to be God at the beginning. If they did, they would not have huddled in fear of the Jews both after the Resurrection and after the Ascension at Pentecost. The writings I have seen indicate a growing awareness of the divinity of Christ and the Trinitarian formula of God which eventually culminated in Nicea.
Rome has not strayed so far from sanity that it now ceases to teach the truth that Paul was Trinitarian and that all believing Jews and Gentiles are now God's chosen people.
From the RCC catechism...
751 - The word "Church" (Latin ecclesia, from the Greek ek-ka-lein, to "call out of") means a convocation or an assembly. It designates the assemblies of the people, usually for a religious purpose.139 Ekklesia is used frequently in the Greek Old Testament for the assembly of the Chosen People before God, above all for their assembly on Mount Sinai where Israel received the Law and was established by God as his holy people.140 By calling itself "Church," the first community of Christian believers recognized itself as heir to that assembly. In the Church, God is "calling together" his people from all the ends of the earth. The equivalent Greek term Kyriake, from which the English word Church and the German Kirche are derived, means "what belongs to the Lord."
No red-herring of "replacementarianism." Just the people of God maturing into the full and revealed faith of Jesus Christ.
AMEN!
If Roman Catholics read their Bibles they might know these things and keep themselves from idols.
No. These believers are already saved, that’s why they are called believers. They are NOT on their way to salvation.
Interesting that Catholics consider sex between a husband and wife as "carnal relations". Sex between a husband and wife is God's idea and there's nothing wrong with it at all.
Actually, I am in awe of those Reformers who have rewritten the tenets of Christianity and expect us to believe them, if only for their unmitigated gall.
From the RCC catechism...
What is the RCC catechism?
No red-herring of "replacementarianism."
Who said anything about replacementarianism?
Just the people of God maturing into the full and revealed faith of Jesus Christ.
Very good. You are speaking of the Catholic Church. Congratulations. You may become Christian after all. Is there anything I can do to help?
752 In Christian usage, the word "church" designates the liturgical assembly,141 but also the local community142 or the whole universal community of believers.143 These three meanings are inseparable. "The Church" is the People that God gathers in the whole world. She exists in local communities and is made real as a liturgical, above all a Eucharistic, assembly. She draws her life from the word and the Body of Christ and so herself becomes Christ's Body.
Are you possibly making your first steps towards Christianity? If so, please allow me to assist you in any way that I can.
They were not in Jerusalem to celebrate a Christian or Jewish Pentecost. The only “Pentecost” celebration going on was the Shavouts, a.k.a., Pentecost. (See above)
The only “Christian definition of Pentecost” is that found in the Bible and that has, in several posts to you, been explained.
If some celebrate the outpouring of spirit upon Christians at the same time Jewish Shavouts, a.k.a., Pentecost was taking place that is another matter and what Jews think of that outpouring of spirit is irrelevant.
As is the rest of your post.
So do try to pay attention as I've no more time to waste explaining the obvious to you.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. - Matt 12:35-37
It is God's Word of Truth that makes you a workman of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the Word of God. NOT THE CHURCH.
You will not find this in the Dispensation of the Kingdom. It is in abayance until the Church the BOdy of Christ is complete and taken away. Then the Millenial Dispensation begins.
But as you've said before, you're not interested in studying God's Word the way He says to study it. You like the smoothness of all the NT.
I’m wondering why I was pinged to this.
INDEED.
SOBERING, YET LIFE-GIVING SCRIPTURES.
THX.
I consider you a source of sanity amidst the
RC’s hereon. And, you have SOME [LOL] balance and capacity to see beyond your own biases.
I thought it reasonable to give you an invite to weigh in however you wished to on those sorts of issues.
You often side with your RC co-horts when I least expect it . . . and sometimes toss me a bone when I least expect it.
In any case, I value your perspective.
That’s why.
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