Problems in the seminary at Maynooth, Ireland

What Does the Prayer Really Say? ^ | 5/30/2010 | Fr John Zuhlsdorf

[markomalley]

I received a note from a Irish priest friend about articles in the Irish Daily Mail concerning problems at the seminary in Maynooth.  I had planned to write about it, but others have done some of the heavy lifting already.

This is depressing stuff.   And it sounds exactly like what the seminary I was in the USA over 20 years ago.

Honestly, I thought this sort of thing was finally over.

Here is Fr. Mildew on the topic with my emphases and comments.

The Article by Mark Dooley is entitled Sin within the Church is born in Seminaries and my friend in Ireland who sent me the article tells me there is a follow up this week which he is sending me.

Mark has visited and lectured in Seminaries and reports that Irish Seminaries are hotbeds of serious moral decay which is devastating the Church in this country. Their culture is one which rejects piety and holiness in favour of religious laxity and moral confusion. This is resulting in priests who barely believe in the doctrine they were ordained to promote. Mark speaks then of courageous young men who have told him about what is going on, and even have to conceal their true piety at the risk of being thrown out of the seminary. [I’m having a flashback.] One seminarian complained to Mark he was not allowed to knell during Mass. He has learnt that some professors have told him there is no such thing as transubtstantiation [Exactly what my waterloo was at my seminary… a prof, priest, who explicitly denied transsubtantiation.] and that he should not look to Rome as "they dont know anything". Often the Rosary is frowned upon. Seminarians have been taught that the Mass is just a memorial of a past event and is only a "gathering of the Community" to remember the event.  [The same doctrine denying priest told us that when an "ordained minister says the words of institution over bread and wine, no real change takes place.  It becomes a symbol of the unity of the community gathered there in that moment."  How many things are wrong with that?]  Meanwhile in the Seminaries he claims, excessive drinking and dubious sexual practices are overlooked. [Yes… this is like a nasty flashback.] He claims that the seminaries are still refusing to accept that there is anything wrong with their training methods and refusing in effect to teach that the priest should be formed in the image of Christ . Later on the current erroneous teaching leads in part at least to the abuse scandals of today.

My own comment is that I have found small examples of this in the past in the training of priests over here….but many years ago. Students who were told to leave because of their piety and even homsexuality cases.  A recent case concerns a priest who was ordained 20 years ago who was teaching that one could not accept that the words used by Our Lord in the Gospel were ever uttered, and that what mattered at Mass was the Community. He has now been "retired".

Anyone reading this ever think about giving financial support to Maynooth?  You might want to ask some questions.

With a biretta tip to the parish priest of St. Mary Magdalen in Brighton and Fr. Mildew, comes this additional point….. about the seminary in Maynooth, Ireland.

Father Mildew has an interesting post about about a kerfuffle at Maynooth, an article appeared in the Irish Daily Mail by a former member of staff, Dr Dooley, suggesting that the college turns out collared social-workers and orthodox, faithful, pious students are persecuted. Fr Mildew then says…

....an open letter to himself [Dr Dooley] was posted on the notice board inviting students to sign up. The letter stated that Mr Dooleys article was misinformed and insulting to the majority of the community. When only two students signed up, the student who produced the letter went round to each student and invited them to sign but in the morning only very few had signed. But the President then addressed the student body and accused those who had written to Dooley of lacking elementary Christianity and should examine their consciences, as such communications were a sign of their not being suited to the priesthood.

It is sad that this is not just an Irish problem, obviously in wouldn’t happen in an English seminary today but one continually hears from other parts of the world about students having to feign a lack of devotion to be acceptable to "old Church" authorities. I remember being advised to "keep that reactionary Ratzinger’s books hidden" and not to quote him in essays.  [This needs to be unmasked where ever it takes place.]

In a way this reflects on a discussion on an earlier post, which is really about the nature of theology.

The past, I suspect the President of Maynooth might be included here, treat theology as something to "de-bunk" or to analyse, whereas Tradition sees it as something to increase our sense of wonder and awe, to deepen our faith rather than undermine it. Theology feeds piety and prayer, something is wrong when it undermines it.

 

I think you get the idea.

Our seminaries are getting better.  They really are.  But there are some relics of the really awful still out there.  They are still out there… but they are fewer and fewer and fewer.

[markomalley]

You two might be interested in this.

[hondact200]

protestants seminaries are no different. I attended three, first as a youth minister in Springfield, Missouri the Assemblies of God Theological seminary. i served in a church and went to took classes at the local seminary because the classes transferred to another ATS Association of Theological Schools. I was never so disillusioned by the instructors at AGTS i changed the name to All Gods Truths Scandalized. here I served in the Marine Corps, taught discipline and so forth, and a year later deployed to Lebanon, barracks blown up. returned to the states, went to college received and undergraduate degree, went on for masters in history, started to seek a masters in divinity, i finished the masters in divinity at a different seminary. and finished masters in pastoral counseling at another seminary. the first seminary, recently accredited by ATS, was steaming to teach JEPD in Old Testament.I showed the senior pastor and he was shocked that AGTS was utilizing liberal theology coming out of Harvard. Pastoral counselor instructor stated that it was okay to be sexually active prior to marriage. christian education instructor said that we had to be more accepting of the homosexual lifestyle in the classroom. That was a semster of disillusionment. Makes me wonder if pentecostalism is just a bunch of hooey. Yes I finished elsewhere, and serve yet today as a pastor and a counselor. But the disillusionment that I saw and lived is still apparent in the church of today, and yes it is affecting protestant and catholic alike.

[markomalley]

protestants seminaries are no different. I attended three, first as a youth minister in Springfield, Missouri the Assemblies of God Theological seminary. i served in a church and went to took classes at the local seminary because the classes transferred to another ATS Association of Theological Schools. I was never so disillusioned by the instructors at AGTS i changed the name to All Gods Truths Scandalized…But the disillusionment that I saw and lived is still apparent in the church of today, and yes it is affecting protestant and catholic alike.

As a pastor, you might appreciate this encyclical letter published by Pope Pius X: Pascendi Dominici Gregis (On the Doctrine of the Modernists).

Of course, the document is written from a Catholic Pope to Catholic bishops and thus is definitely from a Catholic perspective. BUT if you read beyond that and see what he is saying about modernism...way back in 1907...you may get a whole lot out of it...and it may help answer your concern about how we got to where we are today.

[hondact200]

thanks for the article. I will take the time to read it. yes modernist have changed the church of today, and many more people are walking away from the mainstream churches. The catholic church has been doing a series of ads on the radio returning to the catholic church. being protestant i like the ads. Hopefully the economic times will turn people hearts back to the traditional faiths away from the easy believism of today’s quick fixes.

[SkyPilot]

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11

Anyone who does not believe in Christ is doomed to Hell itself, and any window dressing improvements won't improve their view from eternal prison.

[Paved Paradise]

This is a problem that has been going on since the beginning I am afraid, and, is exactly what caused the break when Luther posted his theses. I know that he was disturbed by what he saw in Rome with the indulgences. I don’t think Luther was some great saint like some though, but I do think he rightly pointed out the sins he saw.

Meanwhile, have you heard of Father Corapi. My friend sends me stuff from him. She says he is a prophet of God and I believe he really is.

[Paved Paradise]

One more comment, if you don’t mind. Many years ago my dear in-laws were in a Catholic church where they got this new priest. Everyone loved the guy. He preached that the Devil was a myth. Meanwhile, I told my m-i-l that Jesus spoke of Satan so the guy was basically saying Jesus was either a liar or a kook. I was pretty upset that a Catholic church would allow a priest to preach such lies. I even called up the diocese (aren’t I nervy? I’m not even Catholic) and asked about it and the woman on the phone (very nice lady) said that they knew about him and that people were complaining. I don’t know what happened to him but he was gone within a year. I know there’s a remnant of God’s people in most churches and they will stand up. However, I also know there are many so-called churches that have rotted to the core.

[markomalley]

Meanwhile, have you heard of Father Corapi. My friend sends me stuff from him. She says he is a prophet of God and I believe he really is.

I like Fr. Corapi.

I know that he was disturbed by what he saw in Rome with the indulgences.

I think what disturbed Luther was the sale of indulgences and he was rightly concerned with that (sale of a spiritual good = simony, an objectively grave evil).

But, yes, when doctrine starts getting corrupt for whatever reason, that is not a good thing. And that is exactly what this seminary was pushing.

[Paved Paradise]

I agree with you 100 percent. I think the Bible is clear when it says that those in a position of teaching will held to a higher accountability for those they lead astray.

[Sun]

“I think the Bible is clear when it says that those in a position of teaching will held to a higher accountability for those they lead astray.”

And they certainly SHOULD be more accountable.