Posted on 05/27/2010 6:44:33 AM PDT by Colofornian
The discussion on Book of Mormon geography was getting heated. Scholars gathered in Provo, Utah, to discuss their theories about where the events described in the Book of Mormon took place. Some placed the Nephite capital city Zarahemla in Mesoamerica, others in South America. Others argued for a setting in the American heartland.
The president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attended the two-day Book of Mormon convention. Although he found the discussion interesting, he was obviously concerned that people were getting a little too worked up about their geographic theories. He decided to intervene.
The Book of Mormon geography conference was held at Brigham Young Academy on May 23-24, 1903. But the advice President Joseph F. Smith gave at that conference 107 years ago could apply equally to current disputes over Book of Mormon geography.
"President Smith spoke briefly," the Deseret News account summarized, "and expressed the idea that the question of the city (of Zarahemla) was one of interest certainly, but if it could not be located the matter was not of vital importance, and if there were differences of opinion on the question it would not affect the salvation of the people; and he advised against students considering it of such vital importance as the principles of the Gospel."
More recently, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism described how "Church leadership officially and consistently distances itself from issues regarding Book of Mormon geography."
But the lack of an official position hasn't squelched interest. The subject attracts highly trained archaeologists and scholars and informed — and not-so-informed — amateurs and enthusiasts. Books, lectures and even Book of Mormon lands tours abound.
But something is rotten in Zarahemla — wherever it may be.
In the middle of what could be a fun and intellectually exciting pursuit similar to archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann's famous search for the lost city of Troy, there are accusations of disloyalty tantamount to apostasy.
In one corner is the more-established idea of a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon. This theory places the events of the book in a limited geographic setting that is about the same size as ancient Israel. The location is in southern Mexico and Guatemala. The person most often associated with this theory is John L. Sorenson, a retired professor of anthropology at BYU, and the author of "An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon" and a series of articles on Book of Mormon geography that ran in the Ensign magazine in September and October 1984. A new book, tentatively titled "Mormon's Codex," is in the process of being published.
In the other corner is the challenger, a new theory that places Book of Mormon events in a North American "heartland" setting. Like the Mesoamerican theory, it also is limited in area — but not quite as limited. Its symbolic head is Rod L. Meldrum and, more recently, Bruce H. Porter. Meldrum and Porter are the co-authors of the book "Prophecies and Promises," which promotes the heartland setting.
It wouldn't be hard to predict that some friction might come about from competing theories — that healthy sparring would occur with arguments and counter-arguments. But it has gone beyond that.
The source of the animosity comes from the heartland theory's mantra: "Joseph knew."
Joseph Smith made several statements that can be interpreted to have geographic implications. Proponents of a North American setting see these statements as authoritative and based in revelation. Mesoamerican theorists think that Joseph Smith's ideas about geography expanded over time and included approval of at least some connection to Central America.
To the heartlander, Joseph's knowledge about Book of Mormon locations is seen as proof of his divine calling and a testament to his being the chosen translator/expert of the book. Joseph didn't just know; he knew everything. This position, however, leaves little room for other opinions — or for charity.
"The way I look at Joseph Smith's statements is that he either knew or he didn't know. If he knew, he knew by revelation. And if he didn't know, you've got to ask yourself why he said the things that he said," Porter said. "If he didn't know, was he trying to show off? If he really didn't know, why was he telling people?
"My feeling is that Joseph Smith did not lie," Porter said.
If you don't agree with this line of reasoning, by implication, you think that Joseph lied.
"My authority is Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon," Porter said. "Most of your Mesoamerican theorists, their authority is John Sorenson and Matthew Roper. They picked those as their authority at the neglect of Joseph Smith."
Matthew P. Roper, a research scholar at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute Of Religious Scholarship, naturally doesn't like this characterization. "They seem to be trying to elevate a question of lesser importance, Book of Mormon geography, to the level of the doctrines of the church," Roper said. "And even though they give lip service to things like they know the church has not given an official position, they turn around and say, 'All these people are dismissing Joseph Smith.' "
It is somewhat ironic that believing that Joseph did not "know" also supports Joseph as a prophet. The more Joseph's assumptions about Book of Mormon geography prove to be wrong, the greater a testimony that he did not write the book himself. "We assume," Roper said, "that since Joseph Smith was the translator of the Book of Mormon, and that it was translated by the gift and power of God, that he would know everything about the book that an author would. I would submit that the two are not the same thing. I could translate the 'Wars of Caesar' and not know anything about ancient Gaul or the different tribes."
When Meldrum's theories first became popularized through firesides and a DVD he produced, the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) took notice and responded with gusto.
"The way he said things, they attack that more than they attack the evidence that he presented," Porter said.
Scott Gordon, president of FAIR, would not disagree. "We view this as a steadying-of-the-ark issue. We really don't care where he picks for his theory on where the Book of Mormon can take place," Gordon said. "What we care about that he is implying that the church is not following the teachings of Joseph Smith. Which means the church leadership, the prophet — everything is not following. And we think that is a very, very dangerous position."
"They are getting really worried because they are seeing this is becoming a movement. That's their words," Meldrum said. "They are just saying it's a movement because they are getting a lot of flak from people who are seeing the DVD and the information and thinking, 'You know what, this makes a lot of sense.' "
But supporters also see the heartland theory as an inspired movement that will transform the LDS Church: "(V)ery few people out there fully grasp the magnitude of this movement and the powerful influence that it is having and the sweeping nature of its message," wrote one prominent supporter. "It will sweep the church and most LDS will not even understand what happened until it's past. … Time is our friend."
A movement — about geography?
Historian Ronald O. Barney has seen similar attitudes in some people supporting Mesoamerica. One person described a particular Mesoamerican book as "life-transforming" and that the book "changed the way I think about everything."
Life-transforming?
"People are hanging their faith on evidence of Book of Mormon peoples," Barney said.
"I just think that this way of thinking about our religion is such a waste of time," Barney said, "It almost suggests we don't trust the Holy Ghost. Not only are we worried that he won't reveal to people the truthfulness of the book, but we want to augment it — even if we have to bend and distort — so that there can be no mistake about its truthfulness."
Meldrum said he doesn't hang his testimony on the heartland theory.
"I don't know that this geography is true. I've said that many times and I want to make sure that that's clear. If President Monson was to tomorrow say, 'You know what? I've had a revelation and the Book of Mormon occurred in Indonesia,' you know what? I'm with him." Meldrum said with a laugh.
John L. Sorenson stands by the Mesoamerican theory, but also the Prophet.
"(Geography) wasn't very important to him and he didn't know much about it," Sorenson said. "Joseph knew what he knew — and what he knew was far more important than geography."
Joseph's nephew, President Joseph F. Smith, would probably agree.
I still want a jacket patch! [Humblegunner]
I am pricing them. We still need to decide on a logo though. [Reaganaut]
Well, the logo should be built around the concept of “standing up”...
Standing up in an airplane is what the “flying imams” did...
The first official Protestant, Martin Luther, said, “Here I stand. I can do no other.”
Evangelicals sing, “Stand up, stand up for Jesus.”
And the most literal meaning of the Greek word for “resurrection” used in the NT is “stand up”
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A graphic artist I am not, but I love the idea of stand up and perhaps include elements of our Player of the week graphic.
Basically, we can easily do a shield, circle, or rectangle shape and for a reasonable fee. Then we need to decide on a size or two.
Any of our more artistic inmans have some ideas?
And a very happy anniversary to my fellow inmans. It is a joy and a pleasure to work with such great brothers and sisters in the Lord in this important work.
Soli deo Gloria.
Wish I was there.
Also, theres a book about a boy during the American Jevolution that was published about 1940...Johnny Tremain..
One of the last lines is “A man must stand up”
Also, theres a book about a boy during the American Revolution that was published about 1940...Johnny Tremain..
One of the last lines is “A man must stand up”
Bottom line: I sharply disagree with your presentation of the Book of Mormon treatment of a Jesus with the Nephites as “stunningly beautiful.” It wasn’t. You have mischaracterized and misrepresented the Book of Mormon to people at-large. And I’m simply asking you to readjust your statement.
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It is interesting to note that when Christ died, there were no mass descructions/killings in Jerusalem, even among the ‘wicked’ who personally crucified Him.
In fact, many were resurrected (Matt 27:52).
Yet, there is NOTHING but destruction and death in the New World, a land who had NOT crucified Him and had not even rejected His earthly ministry.
How can that make sense to anyone?
And a very Happy Anniversary to all The Fluing Inmans...
Let God arise and His enemies be scattered. Let those who hate God run for their lives....Psalm 68:1
And a very Happy Anniversary to all The Flying Inmans...
Let God arise and His enemies be scattered. Let those who hate God run for their lives....Psalm 68:1
If you are saying that Jesus Christ does not cause massive destructions of people, then you must also reject the book of Revelation in the New Testament.
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Also, NOT the same thing at all. Why? Because the judgments of Revelation are on the people AFTER the Church age (after the earth has had a chance to accept Christ in this age).
That did not apply to those killed in 3 Nephi.
Not even a good try, there.
Stand up, Stand up for Jesus
You soldiers of the CROSS
“Stand and deliver”
The beauty of Christ’s death on the Cross to pay for my sins inspires me to worship Him, love Him, tell others about Him and His sacrifice, and wear a Cross to remind myself that my God suffered and died for ME in a brutal way so my sins are wiped clean.
Flying Inman Remembrance Day Placemarker
...dedicated to the freedom of those who are
currently enslaved to mormonism and other
American cults.
Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Ephesians 6:13
Stand your ground, putting on the belt of truth and the body armor of God’s righteousness. For shoes, put on the peace that comes from the Gospel so that you will be fully prepared. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one, the devil. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the believers, everywhere. Ephesians 14-18
You are on a roll today, Brother!
Praise God!
He was the designer of the Gary Gabelich Rocket Man Car
Tom is not LDS and is really, really conservative.He shares our attitudes on these matters although don't know about his religious thoughts. He may be a perfect inman but I don't know if he is on FR. (farther right than that)
I might be able to talk to him about this project as in reality it could turn into something quite important. I think we want an unused and unique design.
My ability when it comes to art is this: if I can do its not art.
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LOL. That describes me too.
Let God arise!
Amen, nana.
Oh, I just talked to another ex-mo friend of mine (strong Christian but her hubby is still LDS and God is slowly opening his eyes).
Anyway, she told me at church today, there was this man in a white shirt/dress pants, etc that she didn’t recognize so she went up an said ‘hi’ but got this VERY creepy feeling, like he was pure evil.
She asked God to forgive her for judging him, but she kept getting this nag that he was evil and she should go pray.
So she went downstairs to the nursery, and asked a friend to pray with her about this man and his intentions. So they start praying for the church and casting out demons and after the prayer, she went back upstairs and the guy had left!
The guy is a member of the LDS stake presidency, (the pastor confirmed this after church when my friend talked to him) and was there because he had asked to give a presentation on the LDS church and the pastor (Mark) said NO. The guy responded with ‘what is wrong with being Mormon’, so Pastor Mark TOLD HIM!!! He had also been inquiring about my friends husband (how often he attended, how ‘active’ he was, etc). Mark shut him down and that was all BEFORE today.
But, wow, talk about NERVE!
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