The fight over Book of Mormon geography

Mormon Times ^ | May 27, 2010 | Michael DeGroote

[Colofornian]

The discussion on Book of Mormon geography was getting heated. Scholars gathered in Provo, Utah, to discuss their theories about where the events described in the Book of Mormon took place. Some placed the Nephite capital city Zarahemla in Mesoamerica, others in South America. Others argued for a setting in the American heartland.

The president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attended the two-day Book of Mormon convention. Although he found the discussion interesting, he was obviously concerned that people were getting a little too worked up about their geographic theories. He decided to intervene.

The Book of Mormon geography conference was held at Brigham Young Academy on May 23-24, 1903. But the advice President Joseph F. Smith gave at that conference 107 years ago could apply equally to current disputes over Book of Mormon geography.

"President Smith spoke briefly," the Deseret News account summarized, "and expressed the idea that the question of the city (of Zarahemla) was one of interest certainly, but if it could not be located the matter was not of vital importance, and if there were differences of opinion on the question it would not affect the salvation of the people; and he advised against students considering it of such vital importance as the principles of the Gospel."

More recently, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism described how "Church leadership officially and consistently distances itself from issues regarding Book of Mormon geography."

But the lack of an official position hasn't squelched interest. The subject attracts highly trained archaeologists and scholars and informed — and not-so-informed — amateurs and enthusiasts. Books, lectures and even Book of Mormon lands tours abound.

But something is rotten in Zarahemla — wherever it may be.

In the middle of what could be a fun and intellectually exciting pursuit similar to archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann's famous search for the lost city of Troy, there are accusations of disloyalty tantamount to apostasy.

In one corner is the more-established idea of a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon. This theory places the events of the book in a limited geographic setting that is about the same size as ancient Israel. The location is in southern Mexico and Guatemala. The person most often associated with this theory is John L. Sorenson, a retired professor of anthropology at BYU, and the author of "An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon" and a series of articles on Book of Mormon geography that ran in the Ensign magazine in September and October 1984. A new book, tentatively titled "Mormon's Codex," is in the process of being published.

In the other corner is the challenger, a new theory that places Book of Mormon events in a North American "heartland" setting. Like the Mesoamerican theory, it also is limited in area — but not quite as limited. Its symbolic head is Rod L. Meldrum and, more recently, Bruce H. Porter. Meldrum and Porter are the co-authors of the book "Prophecies and Promises," which promotes the heartland setting.

It wouldn't be hard to predict that some friction might come about from competing theories — that healthy sparring would occur with arguments and counter-arguments. But it has gone beyond that.

The source of the animosity comes from the heartland theory's mantra: "Joseph knew."

Joseph Smith made several statements that can be interpreted to have geographic implications. Proponents of a North American setting see these statements as authoritative and based in revelation. Mesoamerican theorists think that Joseph Smith's ideas about geography expanded over time and included approval of at least some connection to Central America.

To the heartlander, Joseph's knowledge about Book of Mormon locations is seen as proof of his divine calling and a testament to his being the chosen translator/expert of the book. Joseph didn't just know; he knew everything. This position, however, leaves little room for other opinions — or for charity.

"The way I look at Joseph Smith's statements is that he either knew or he didn't know. If he knew, he knew by revelation. And if he didn't know, you've got to ask yourself why he said the things that he said," Porter said. "If he didn't know, was he trying to show off? If he really didn't know, why was he telling people?

"My feeling is that Joseph Smith did not lie," Porter said.

If you don't agree with this line of reasoning, by implication, you think that Joseph lied.

"My authority is Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon," Porter said. "Most of your Mesoamerican theorists, their authority is John Sorenson and Matthew Roper. They picked those as their authority at the neglect of Joseph Smith."

Matthew P. Roper, a research scholar at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute Of Religious Scholarship, naturally doesn't like this characterization. "They seem to be trying to elevate a question of lesser importance, Book of Mormon geography, to the level of the doctrines of the church," Roper said. "And even though they give lip service to things like they know the church has not given an official position, they turn around and say, 'All these people are dismissing Joseph Smith.' "

It is somewhat ironic that believing that Joseph did not "know" also supports Joseph as a prophet. The more Joseph's assumptions about Book of Mormon geography prove to be wrong, the greater a testimony that he did not write the book himself. "We assume," Roper said, "that since Joseph Smith was the translator of the Book of Mormon, and that it was translated by the gift and power of God, that he would know everything about the book that an author would. I would submit that the two are not the same thing. I could translate the 'Wars of Caesar' and not know anything about ancient Gaul or the different tribes."

When Meldrum's theories first became popularized through firesides and a DVD he produced, the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) took notice and responded with gusto.

"The way he said things, they attack that more than they attack the evidence that he presented," Porter said.

Scott Gordon, president of FAIR, would not disagree. "We view this as a steadying-of-the-ark issue. We really don't care where he picks for his theory on where the Book of Mormon can take place," Gordon said. "What we care about that he is implying that the church is not following the teachings of Joseph Smith. Which means the church leadership, the prophet — everything is not following. And we think that is a very, very dangerous position."

"They are getting really worried because they are seeing this is becoming a movement. That's their words," Meldrum said. "They are just saying it's a movement because they are getting a lot of flak from people who are seeing the DVD and the information and thinking, 'You know what, this makes a lot of sense.' "

But supporters also see the heartland theory as an inspired movement that will transform the LDS Church: "(V)ery few people out there fully grasp the magnitude of this movement and the powerful influence that it is having and the sweeping nature of its message," wrote one prominent supporter. "It will sweep the church and most LDS will not even understand what happened until it's past. … Time is our friend."

A movement — about geography?

Historian Ronald O. Barney has seen similar attitudes in some people supporting Mesoamerica. One person described a particular Mesoamerican book as "life-transforming" and that the book "changed the way I think about everything."

Life-transforming?

"People are hanging their faith on evidence of Book of Mormon peoples," Barney said.

"I just think that this way of thinking about our religion is such a waste of time," Barney said, "It almost suggests we don't trust the Holy Ghost. Not only are we worried that he won't reveal to people the truthfulness of the book, but we want to augment it — even if we have to bend and distort — so that there can be no mistake about its truthfulness."

Meldrum said he doesn't hang his testimony on the heartland theory.

"I don't know that this geography is true. I've said that many times and I want to make sure that that's clear. If President Monson was to tomorrow say, 'You know what? I've had a revelation and the Book of Mormon occurred in Indonesia,' you know what? I'm with him." Meldrum said with a laugh.

John L. Sorenson stands by the Mesoamerican theory, but also the Prophet.

"(Geography) wasn't very important to him and he didn't know much about it," Sorenson said. "Joseph knew what he knew — and what he knew was far more important than geography."

Joseph's nephew, President Joseph F. Smith, would probably agree.

[Godzilla]

From the article:"The way I look at Joseph Smith's statements is that he either knew or he didn't know. If he knew, he knew by revelation. And if he didn't know, you've got to ask yourself why he said the things that he said," Porter said. "If he didn't know, was he trying to show off? If he really didn't know, why was he telling people?
"My feeling is that Joseph Smith did not lie," Porter said.
If you don't agree with this line of reasoning, by implication, you think that Joseph lied.

This is really the crux of the debate. Smith made very specific claims and statements regarding the locations of some bom events - and they are not in central america. In fact, Meldrum's theory more closely matches the assumptions that smith altered his geography from local landmarks in the NY area in smith's time with followed by associted "altered" bom names

In fact, my first bom contained pictures of the great lake with a reference to the sea west and sea east.

[Colofornian]

Personally I think it will eventually be shown that central America is where it all took place. /shrug But it really doesn’t matter on tiny bit.

(And next you'll tell us it won't matter one tiny bit if the Book of Mormon geography actually occurred on Mars or another planet...that location is irrelevant? Why does any Mormon, then, assume that we're even talking about the American continent at all? Maybe all this took place in Canada somewhere, eh? Or maybe the "Lamanites" were the Eskimos in Northern Canadian, region, eh?)

[Godzilla]

Personally I think it will eventually be shown that central America is where it all took place. /shrug But it really doesn’t matter on tiny bit.

Or baja california, or Malay Pennesula? or even Africa or Polynesia? How about it occured in a land called 'no where'? In all these hundreds of years of search not one solid piece of evidence has been able to be produced that shows a hebraic/egyptian/middle eastern culture with advanced metallurgy, horses, old world crops (and no new world crops),chariots writing or customs has been found. Unless you want to start second guessing the prophet and the seer stone in a hat and say that horses were actually deer and that tapirs are courloms.

[svcw]

Ok, M. Discussing theology is not hostility.

If you chose to believe that it is ok to not point out that the lds beliefs are counter to Biblical Truth, its ok, it is your choice.

I am not nor have I ever been anti-mormon (being I have family who are lds) but adamantly anti-mormonISM.

I want my family and friends free from this bondage and no others sucked into the void.

You choose one way and I have chosen another, I strive that people be free.

[Osage Orange]

I've never seen that before....

Doesn't surprise me in the least...

Wow...P.T. Barnum was totally right.

[svcw]

Oh, thought I’d post the whole link so people could get the rest of the explanation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mormonism

[Tennessee Nana]

Please point out where I said anything bad about Christians?
__________________________________________

Mormonism was started by Joey Smith as an anti-Chersitian religion...

it is based on his hatred for anything and anyone whom he considered a hinderance to his ego maniacal lust for women, money and power..

He had at least 40 adulterous affairs, he printed his own $3 bills and had his own bank scam., and controlled his followers in a Piped Piper atmosphere of David Koresh tactics and Mohammadan wannabe copycatism ..he also rewrote pats of the Chrstian Bible in ordser to write himself into the pages as a prophecised future prophet and “savior”..one of the beliefs in mormonism is that he is the one who decides who gets into the mormon afterlife And not Jesus...

He declared himself king of the world, said that shortly the whole world would bow to him, made himself mayor of Nauvoo, promoted himself from civilian to general of his 5,000 strong private militia of guerrillas ...and ran for president in 1844 sending “missionaries” to knock on doors for a campaign he prophecicied he would win..

His first railings were against the Christian Churches because they ex-communicated his whole family when they chose to help spread his “restored gospel” thay Jesus of the Bible is supposed to have “lost”..

What Presbyteriasn Church would put up with distortuions of Christianity being pronounced in their pulpits ???

About a year after he foun ded his new religion, in 1831, he had an adulterous affair. He may have had other women earlier also.

As an excuse to cheat on his wife, he wrote a new doctrine just for her, stating that his new “god” would destroy her if she tried to stop him from having as many virgins as he wanted...

(Soes thius sound like a Chrsitian tenet to you ???)

He had a least 11 women who were already married to other men and a girl as young as 14, because her father would not give him her mother...

Mormonism is anti-Chrsitianity...
To support and agree with the doctrines of mormonism, it is necessary to reject Christianity...

There is nothing of Christianity in mormonism...

Indeed mormonism perverts the Bible and all Christian beliefs...even the Bible testimony of Jesus is watered down to where mormons believe their mormonj jesus was born as a man as a result of physical sex between their mormon god and Mary...and then became a god and therefore mormon males can become gods to and rule their own planets with large harems ...

Does this sound like Chrsitianity to you ???

[Godzilla]

Some dispute over some of the ‘names’, but not suprising. One of the big ‘discussions’ of smith’s era was whether or not the Indians were the lost tribes of Israel. A “View to the Hebrews” was very popular at the time the bom was written and parallels the bom on MANY points. Hill Cumorah is in NY - so it wouldn’t be too suprising that smith modeled most of the story on a NE geography - covered with enough ambiguity to make it difficult to see the plagerisms.

[donozark]

Again, PLEASE point out where EYE said anything bad about Christians. But thanks for the lecture.

[svcw]

mormon jesus was born as a man as a result of physical sex between their mormon god and Mary.

This belief (of lds) just makes me want to gag.

[Tennessee Nana]

Its that evil ???

I respect Mary as the mother of Jesus but I feel sorry for the Catholics who have to put up with such blasphemy...

How sick at heart it must make them feel to have Mary so maligned...

[Tennessee Nana]

Isnt that evil ???

[Tennessee Nana]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

How do you feel about 50,000 mormons being sent out to the homes of Christians to tell us we are going to Hell because we are not mormons ???

Do you also object to the mormons blatant anti-Christian bigotry and assault on Christians ???

Or is that OK ???

[donozark]

So do you have anything on the Hickory Grove phase of J. Smith’s life? NE Penn? Circa 1820-25?

[Tennessee Nana]

How dio you feel about the mormons targeting dead Chrsitians for their pagan dead dunking ???

To date most of my known American ancestors have been dead dunked...

and they were all identified as Methodist, Presbyterian, Anglican, Huguenot, Walloon in their records...

and I’m speaking dozens...

Do you think that was OK for the mormons to display anti-Chrsitian bias against my Christian ancestors ???

How do you feel about the mormons dead dunking Father Damian who spent his life ministering to lepers in Hawaii ???

Father Damian lived a life of sacrifice and devotion to the people there and never married but chose to be celibrant his whole life...as a dedication to God..

But the mormons managed to find him a wife and “married” him to her along with the dead dunking...so he would have a wife in the mormon afterlife..

Is that OK with you ???

[Skenderbej]

LOL! Did you think of that yourself?

[donozark]

Madam, one would assume by your jactitations, that you were “dead dunked.” As recently as this morning....

[MEGoody]

So you agree that it’s ok to kill men, women and children because you’re pissed at the federal government?

Are you saying that Mormons alive today committed those acts? If not, what does your comment have to do with my post?

[svcw]

Cute but no cigar.

The prevaricator of lds archeology evidence is the topic, you appear to have forgotten.

Let us all get back on on the digs. ,-)

[Tennessee Nana]

There is no slack to ‘cut’. Joseph smith claimed that the amerindians of his day were descendants of the hebrew party that arrived in the americas 350 bc. This has been shown to be false.
_________________________________________

Joey Smith also claimed that Jesus visited America abd spent most of His time here during the 40 days after He rose again from the dead...

However His time is all accounted for in the Bible...He spent His time with His disciples and there is no mention that he was absent for any length of time...

It was important to Him to spend as much time as He could with the ones He had taught for 3 1/2 years so that He coulod instruct them on what to do next...

He sent out His disciples to preach the Gospel...

His work was done when He said “It is finished...”

He never went anywhere but Israel before He ascended back into Heaven from where He had come and he had always been previously..