Posted on 05/25/2010 10:14:07 PM PDT by restornu
Losing the fear of God;
I have found that the main thing that keeps me in-line is the fear of God. It keeps what I say and do in check. Problem is, what fear can you have when you cannot lose the ultimate goal as to why anyone would become a Christian?
For if you cannot lose salvation;
then none of the above even applies. Why would God tell us to do something but then turn around and make it sound like none of it has to be done?
It's like saying: You can drive the car all you want, but never put gas in it. Why? Because it's not needed. So why fear God enough to do what He has told us if we are not even going to be judged, or punished for not doing it.
Does God speak worthless words? Is God's book a worthless book? If osas is believed, then 90% of God's word would have to be omitted to make it work. Because all punishment for sin has to be omitted.
Since you've spent so much time investigating the issue, I'm sure you've come across the correct answers to your questions, but you chose not to believe them...
Those of us who know we have eternal salvation can answer your questions but apparently not to your satisfaction...Most folks in the flesh just can't seem to understand that there is NOTHING they can do to earn or merit God's promised salvation...
Apparently also you seem to think that when you or I sin against God, and we do, that we must fear being kicked out of the family...You don't seem to understand that we don't fear being kicked out, but we have remorse...We have sinned against God...
But then you might ask, why do we feel remorse instead of fear...
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Jesus Christ lives in us, and we in Him...
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
And what of those who backslide or turn away from God??? Did the Prodigal son lose his salvation??? NOPE...
Might we die??? Yes...
Might we get ill??? Yes...
Might God turn our flesh over to Satan for it's (the flesh, not the soul) destruction??? Yes...
Might we fall from Grace??? Yes...
And will God discipline us??? Most certainly...
Will our Father disown us and kick us out of the family; un-adopt us??? Certainly NOT...
Amen.
Good luck using the truth of scripture with restornu, however. Her heart has turned to stone, and she strangles God's word at any point when she feels it threatens the cult.
"But there were False Prophets also among the people, even as there shall be False Teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
2 Peter 2:1
This is the spirit of slavery....., to make “fearing God” something that “keeps you in line.” It is the law. It is the unregenerate man in the only way he knows how to approach God. It is uncertainty and doubt and while it may appear reverent, it is ultimately a fan of hatred toward God, if we actually pay attention to what He truly commands, and not restrict ourselves to surface, external commands.
Your problem, in defining “obedience” to God, is that you set the standard too low. In doing so, you argue with Jesus, who set the bar impossibly high. Do you serve God PERFECTLY in all you do and say? Is your every thought filled with rejoicing over His good providence? Do you trust Him perfectly in all that He ordains. Do you NEVER fail to trust Him, trusting Him to provide for you perfectly according to His will? When His will strips you of some earthly bauble, do you happily give it up, knowing that it is for your good and His glory? Are you so severe with sin that you rip out things as precious to you as your eye, cut them off though they were as essential as your hand? Do you treat your fellow creatures with the same type of respect, never denigrating them, never defrauding them, never doing anything but loving them perfectly, even when they don’t do that to you? THAT (and much more) is the standard.
The ONLY way a man can claim to have lived in a way so as not to sin his way out of relationship with God is to re-define sin to some pathetic set of commands (hello, sir, I think this is called “Pharisaism”). It is an assault on the commands of God no less than an man who spills the blood of another man in anger, or blasphemes.
Your problem is that you don’t see yourself in the awful need of Christ for a total cleansing from the inside out, rather than just dusting you off, forgiving a few external nik-naks and keeping you a “good person.” This is only possible if you have a man-centered view of sin, and thus a man-centered view of God.
There are only two possibilities for men who come face to face with the true demands of God’s holiness. ONE, we can fall at his feet as ruined cosmic rebels, without ANY hope save in the mercy of Christ, and trust in a righteousness that is given freely, maintained freely and to which we cannot add anything, ever, or TWO we can turn away from God. That turning away from the true God may consist in a) building a false God and a false set of standards for righteousness so that we may remain religious and yet keep our sense of self-effort, or b) we may lapse into open rebellion.
The interesting thing is that when Jesus came, he found the religious community a) doing what they always do, which is feeling quite good about their supposed “obedience” and feeling superior to the b) crowd. He did the unthinkable, though, and told the religious moralists they were EVERY BIT as much in rebellion as the irreligious. They had also rejected the true God and manufactured one who was “pleased” with them.
This system of self-righteousness is at the core of your objection to sovereign grace from first to last. You are trying to save yourself. It cannot be done
Does Scripture say that?
YES
Christians don't "follow" the law, they live its precepts, not always in a perfect fashion, and his ever present Grace is there when we fail.
Um, no. No I won't.
I'll keep my underwear on, thank you.
Besides, "Once Naked, Always Naked" spells out O.N.A.N. and that would be kinda gay to do with the author. I'll pass.
Oh, and what is an anit LDS? :-)
Belief in once saved, always saved is irrelevant to one’s salvation.
Salvation is in Christ, not whether you think it can be gained and lost or is permanent. That’s for God to sort out.
It’s a good thing that Mormons don’t have different cults with conflicting beliefs, isn’t it?
Ooops.... LDS, FLDS, AUB, Blackmore/Bountiful Community, Latter Day Church of Christ (Kingston clan), Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days, Centennial Park group, Nielsen / Naylor Group,Independent Mormon fundamentalists
Which one of them is right, I wonder???????
Just tREAD or can they COMMENT as well?
Come ON, guys!
Help our SISTER Restornu here on this thread!!
--MormonDubE(Don't it look like she NEEDS it??)
Oh Guys?? (bone52; Saundra Duffy; urroner; JDW11235; Burkean; Normandy; killermedic;)
Do NOT let this get back to Resty's BISHOP; or HE will FORCE her to take MORMONism 101 all over again!!
It's just TOO BAD that you do NOT know what JS learned to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism - since you used to BE one!
Not necessarily: you could have just decided it wasn't worth it.
Remember Christians of differing denominations.
One of MORMONism’s tactics is to get us FIGHTING amoung ourselves over TRIVIAL things.
They think it gives THEIR veiwpoint legitimacy.
It doesn’t.
Fight the HERESY of MORMONism - not each other!
I think most Christians are OSAS, because that is how they live out their lives, on the other hand ....
Hebrews 6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
That's a good boy...
temple recommend questions
13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:
Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
The Sand Creek Massacre
Your problem is that you don’t see yourself in the awful need of Christ for a total cleansing from the inside out,
mind reading
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
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