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To: Colofornian

Bruce R. McConkie like the Pratt brothers never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost!

Get real and stop trying to see something that is not there!


332 posted on 05/24/2010 7:47:00 AM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu; Colofornian
Bruce R. McConkie like the Pratt brothers never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost! Get real and stop trying to see something that is not there!

Is that just their opinion?

337 posted on 05/24/2010 8:11:51 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: restornu; Logophile; SZonian
Bruce R. McConkie like the Pratt brothers never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost! Get real and stop trying to see something that is not there!

The Mormon godhead: Father Son and Holy Ghost.

Mormonism 101 (for you students on this bright Monday morning):

Q. What is the Mormon 'godhead'?

A. The 'Mormon godhead,' while originally derived from the KJV Bible (used three times in the KJV NT) and simply reflects the underlying Greek word for "deity" -- is a Mormon theological/cultural word that allows them to substitute a biblical word for the "Trinity" without them having to use the word, "Trinity."

Q. Why do they use that?

A. Because Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders have given the word "Trinity" a bad rap over the generations. Yet these Mormon leaders need to somehow explain all the "Trinitarian" verses in the Book of Mormon. So it allows Lds leaders to be semi-trinitarian at times -- when they need to be -- before they elsewhere reference it as an "abomination" of the devil!

Q. Could you provide Book of Mormon examples?

Oh yes. (And BTW, while I mention Book of Mormon examples below, it's not limited to that...Smith was semi-Trinitarian and engaged in modalism early on...as reflected in Doctrine & Covenants 20:28 and 35:2 -- both written in 1830...but he eventually opted for all-out polytheism).

Book of Mormon:
Intro: Testimony of Three Witnesses: And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God.
And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God.
(2 Nephi 31:21)
...the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one. (3 Nephi 11:27,36)
...every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which IS [not ARE] one eternal God... (Alma 11:44)
...given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7: Please note: the original 1830 Book of Mormon had the word "is" prior to one God...BoM editors then changed it to "are"...a "shaking-the-head" kind of thought given that they left other "testimony" untouched -- such as the 3 witnesses -- along with 2 Nephi 31:21 and Alma 11:44)
...there is a true and living God...Is there more than one God? And he answered, No (Alma 11:27-29)
...Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit...and all this, that this man might know that he was God... (Ether 3:17-18)

Other Book of Mormon verses which say that Jesus is God:
2 Nephi 10:3
2 Nephi 11:7
2 Nephi 26:12

Also, Alma 18:28 says that the Holy Ghost is God.

347 posted on 05/24/2010 8:31:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: restornu; Godzilla; Logophile; SZonian
Bruce R. McConkie like the Pratt brothers never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost! Get real and stop trying to see something that is not there!

As I covered in my last post, the Mormon use of “godhead” – while providing some limited plausible cover for Mormon leaders in trying to “explain” the Trinitarian Book of Mormon & D&C passages (though I’m not really sure how “godhead” is really less of a “Trinitarian” term than “Trinity” – all of this has left vast confusion amongst Lds theologians and grassroots alike)

#1, it’s yet another reasons Lds don’t really “go” for theologians, at all, given the vast confusing maze of Mormonistic thought.

Lds “apostle” Bruce R. McConkie is Exhibit A: (Imagine an Lds attorney being such an exhibit)
Here we have the ONLY Lds general authority presumptive enough to write a book called “Mormon Doctrine” – and have it stick on the scene for about half a century of Mormonism. An article last week in the Salt Lake Trib -- Landmark 'Mormon Doctrine' goes out of print -- says of McConkie’s book: "Mormon Doctrine served two generations of the Mormon rank and file as the main authoritative source of LDS teachings," said LDS sociologist Armand Mauss. "With its authoritative tone and constant promotion from high places, it came to be regularly cited in the church curriculum, especially in [Church Educational System] materials, and soon took on almost a scriptural stature."..."The book became one of the all-time best-sellers in Mormondom," they wrote, "achieving the near-canonical status..."

(You would have NEVER thought of the above given the way Resty took pot shots at McConkie in post # 317!!!)

#2 So, here we have a Mormon general authority, “apostle” level…
…bestowed by having a book published under 7 different Lds “prophets” (McKay, Lee, Kimball, Benson, Hunter, Hinckley, Monson)…
…a book published by the Mormon-church owned Deseret Book Publishers (1993)…
…and you might think that Resty has some kind of point when she says that “McConkie…never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost!”

But have you read the book Mormon Doctrine, Resty? Yes? No?

What is interesting about this book is that here we have the leading Mormon theologian & general authority of his day, and yet he himself became vastly confused over simple mathematics when it came to describing God!!!

Allow me to elaborate:

* How many (true) gods are worshiped according to this LDS apostle's "Mormon Doctrine" 1966 book? (Three according to the Mormon definition of Heavenly Father and Jesus and the Holy Ghost being three separate gods): "Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)

* Oh, wait a minute. (I should have kept reading). McConkie, on p. 848, only emphasizes worshiping two gods: "The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship....No one can worship the Father without also worshiping the Son....It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 848).

* Oh, wait. By 1982, McConkie changes his mind upon giving a special devo @ BYU almost 28 years ago (March 2, 1982, "Our Relationship with the Lord.") Essentially, McConkie wasn't happy with either his "3" god or "2" god worship. So he came up with a kind of 1 1/2-god worship to present to BYU students:

We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

Bottom line: Resty, McConkie couldn’t even define the godhead, let alone promote or deny Him!

So, tell us, Resty, is the "Godhead" a Him or a Them. For worship purposes, McConkie, leading Mormon theologian, didn't seem to have a clue. He was vastly confused.

Mormons, don't you think it's time to leave this tangled mass of confusion all behind?

Come to the true Jesus. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. If you and your spouse can share the same last-name identity. The same flesh (Jesus says in Matt. 19 you become one flesh). If that's true of you, then God certainly knows how to be even more intimately diverse, yet definingly ONE personal and inter-personal BEING!

356 posted on 05/24/2010 9:03:55 AM PDT by Colofornian
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