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The Origin of Man - Mormon (OPEN)
Ensign Magazine, From Improvement Era, Nov. 1909 ^ | Feb 2002 | First Presidency

Posted on 05/21/2010 8:22:46 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

Ensign » 2002 » February
 

The Origin of Man

By the First Presidency of the Church

First Presidency, “The Origin of Man,” Ensign, Feb 2002, 26

From Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, 75–81; capitalization, punctuation, paragraphing, and spelling standardized.

“God created man in his own image” (Gen. 1:27).

Image

In the early 1900s, questions concerning the Creation of the earth and the theories of evolution became the subject of much public discussion. In the midst of these controversies, the First Presidency issued the following in 1909, which expresses the Church’s doctrinal position on these matters. A reprinting of this important First Presidency statement will be helpful as members of the Church study the Old Testament this year.

Inquiries arise from time to time respecting the attitude of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints upon questions which, though not vital from a doctrinal standpoint, are closely connected with the fundamental principles of salvation. The latest inquiry of this kind that has reached us is in relation to the origin of man. It is believed that a statement of the position held by the Church upon this subject will be timely and productive of good.

In presenting the statement that follows we are not conscious of putting forth anything essentially new; neither is it our desire so to do. Truth is what we wish to present, and truth—eternal truth—is fundamentally old. A restatement of the original attitude of the Church relative to this matter is all that will be attempted here. To tell the truth as God has revealed it, and commend it to the acceptance of those who need to conform their opinions thereto, is the sole purpose of this presentation.

“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” In these plain and pointed words the inspired author of the book of Genesis made known to the world the truth concerning the origin of the human family. Moses, the prophet-historian—“learned,” as we are told, “in all the wisdom of the Egyptians”—when making this important announcement was not voicing a mere opinion, a theory derived from his researches into the occult lore of that ancient people. He was speaking as the mouthpiece of God, and his solemn declaration was for all time and for all people. No subsequent revelator of the truth has contradicted the great leader and lawgiver of Israel. All who have since spoken by divine authority upon this theme have confirmed his simple and sublime proclamation. Nor could it be otherwise. Truth has but one source, and all revelations from heaven are harmonious with each other. The omnipotent Creator, the maker of heaven and earth, had shown unto Moses everything pertaining to this planet, including the facts relating to man’s origin, and the authoritative pronouncement of that mighty prophet and seer to the house of Israel, and through Israel to the whole world, is couched in the simple clause: “God created man in his own image” (Gen. 1:27; see Moses 1:27–41).

The creation was twofold—first spiritual, secondly temporal. This truth, also, Moses plainly taught—much more plainly than it has come down to us in the imperfect translations of the Bible that are now in use. Therein the fact of a spiritual creation, antedating the temporal creation, is strongly implied, but the proof of it is not so clear and conclusive as in other records held by the Latter-day Saints to be of equal authority with the Jewish scriptures. The partial obscurity of the latter upon the point in question is owing, no doubt, to the loss of those “plain and precious” parts of sacred writ, which, as the Book of Mormon informs us, have been taken away from the Bible during its passage down the centuries (see 1 Ne. 13:24–29). Some of these missing parts the Prophet Joseph Smith undertook to restore when he revised those scriptures by the spirit of revelation, the result being that more complete account of the Creation which is found in the book of Moses, previously cited. Note the following passages:

“And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,

“And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them, and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;

“But, I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

“And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word” (Moses 3:4–7; see also Moses 1 and Moses 2, and compare with Gen. 1 and Gen. 2).

These two points being established, namely, the creation of man in the image of God, and the twofold character of the Creation, let us now inquire: What was the form of man, in the spirit and in the body, as originally created? In a general way the answer is given in the words chosen as the text of this treatise. “God created man in his own image.” It is more explicitly rendered in the Book of Mormon thus: “All men were created in the beginning after mine own image” (Ether 3:15). … If, therefore, we can ascertain the form of the “Father of spirits,” “The God of the spirits of all flesh,” we shall be able to discover the form of the original man.

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is “the express image” of His Father’s person (Heb. 1:3). He walked the earth as a human being, as a perfect man, and said, in answer to a question put to Him: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9). This alone ought to solve the problem to the satisfaction of every thoughtful, reverent mind. The conclusion is irresistible, that if the Son of God be the express image (that is, likeness) of His Father’s person, then His Father is in the form of a man; for that was the form of the Son of God, not only during His mortal life, but before His mortal birth, and after His Resurrection. It was in this form that the Father and the Son, as two personages, appeared to Joseph Smith, when, as a boy of 14 years, he received his first vision. Then if God made man—the first man—in His own image and likeness, He must have made him like unto Christ, and consequently like unto men of Christ’s time and of the present day. That man was made in the image of Christ is positively stated in the book of Moses: “And I, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the beginning, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and it was so. …

“And I, God, created man in mine own image, in the image of mine Only Begotten created I him; male and female created I them” (Moses 2:26–27).

The Father of Jesus is our Father also. Jesus Himself taught this truth when He instructed His disciples how to pray: “Our Father which art in heaven,” etc. Jesus, however, is the firstborn among all the sons of God—the first begotten in the spirit, and the only begotten in the flesh. He is our elder brother, and we, like Him, are in the image of God. All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.

“God created man in His own image.” This is just as true of the spirit as it is of the body, which is only the clothing of the spirit, its complement—the two together constituting the soul. The spirit of man is in the form of man, and the spirits of all creatures are in the likeness of their bodies. This was plainly taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith (see D&C 77:2).

Here is further evidence of the fact. More than 700 years before Moses was shown the things pertaining to this earth, another great prophet, known to us as the brother of Jared, was similarly favored by the Lord. He was even permitted to behold the spirit-body of the foreordained Savior, prior to His incarnation; and so like the body of a man was gazing upon a being of flesh and blood. He first saw the finger and then the entire body of the Lord—all in the spirit. The Book of Mormon says of this wonderful manifestation:

“And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear.

“And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth; and the Lord said to him: Arise, why hast thou fallen?

“And he saith unto the Lord: I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me; for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood.

“And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?

“And he answered: Nay; Lord, show thyself unto me.

“And the Lord said unto him: Believest thou the words which I shall speak?

“And he answered, Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie.

“And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you.

“Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

“And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.

“Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh” (Ether 3:6–16).

What more is needed to convince us that man, both in spirit and in body, is the image and likeness of God and that God Himself is in the form of a man?

When the divine Being whose spirit-body the brother of Jared beheld took upon Him flesh and blood, He appeared as a man, having “body, parts and passions,” like other men, though vastly superior to all others, because He was God, even the Son of God, the Word made flesh: in Him “dwelt the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” And why should He not appear as a man? That was the form of His spirit, and it must needs have an appropriate covering, a suitable tabernacle. He came into the world as He had promised to come (see 3 Ne. 1:13), taking an infant tabernacle and developing it gradually to the fulness of His spirit stature. He came as man had been coming for ages and as man has continued to come ever since. Jesus, however, as shown, was the Only Begotten of God in the flesh.

Adam, our first progenitor, “the first man,” was, like Christ, a preexistent spirit, and like Christ he took upon him an appropriate body, the body of a man, and so became a “living soul.” The doctrine of the preexistence—revealed so plainly, particularly in latter days—pours a wonderful flood of light upon the otherwise mysterious problem of man’s origin. It shows that man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal body to undergo an experience in mortality. It teaches that all men existed in the spirit before any man existed in the flesh and that all who have inhabited the earth since Adam have taken bodies and become souls in like manner.

It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declared that Adam was “the first man of all men” (Moses 1:34), and we are therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race. It was shown to the brother of Jared that all men were created in the beginning after the image of God; whether we take this to mean the spirit or the body, or both, it commits us to the same conclusion: Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our Heavenly Father.

True it is that the body of man enters upon its career as a tiny germ embryo, which becomes an infant, quickened at a certain stage by the spirit whose tabernacle it is, and the child, after being born, develops into a man. There is nothing in this, however, to indicate that the original man, the first of our race, began life as anything less than a man, or less than the human germ or embryo that becomes a man.

Man, by searching, cannot find out God. Never, unaided, will he discover the truth about the beginning of human life. The Lord must reveal Himself or remain unrevealed; and the same is true of the facts relating to the origin of Adam’s race—God alone can reveal them. Some of these facts, however, are already known, and what has been made known it is our duty to receive and retain.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme. By His almighty power He organized the earth and all that it contains, from spirit and element, which exist coeternally with Himself. He formed every plant that grows and every animal that breathes, each after its own kind, spiritually and temporally—“that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal, and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual.” He made the tadpole and the ape, the lion and the elephant, but He did not make them in His own image, nor endow them with godlike reason and intelligence. Nevertheless, the whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its “distinct order or sphere,” and will enjoy “eternal felicity.” That fact has been made plain in this dispensation (see D&C 77:3).

Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God.

Joseph F. Smith
John R. Winder
Anthon H. Lund
First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
November 1909



TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: beck; christian; glennbeck; inman; lds; mormon
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To: restornu

“Their purpose was to contend, they had no interest in truth, they were there to catch Jesus in a snare!”

Yep. It’s a familiar concept, isn’t it?


341 posted on 05/24/2010 8:16:18 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: restornu; Tennessee Nana

JS was called of the Lord Jesus Christ!

- - - - - - -

SAYS WHO? Joseph Smith himself? How can anyone trust the word of a known liar, and conman? Seriously.

Smith wasn’t called of God any more than he was a monogamist.

“Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, for the doctrines of an impostor cannot be made to harmonize in all particulars with divine truth. If his claims and declarations were built upon fraud and deceit, there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect. The doctrines of false teachers will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement, the scriptures.” - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1954, vol. 1, p. 188


342 posted on 05/24/2010 8:16:45 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu

It seems your tongue gets the best of you...

- - - - -
Huh? That makes no sense in response to my post.

Have you ever heard of ‘non sequiter’?


343 posted on 05/24/2010 8:19:44 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu

No, ‘there I went’ explaining how the LDS misuse the ‘right hand’ of God as ‘evidence’ that God has a physical body (which would make Christ a liar, btw since He said God is spirit).


344 posted on 05/24/2010 8:20:55 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Perfect summary!


345 posted on 05/24/2010 8:21:28 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; FastCoyote; ...

Milk before meat seems to spoils your agenda...

This is what Lucifer did in the garden he was teaching meat before milk knowing it would cause others to stumble....

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OH WOW!

My only ‘agenda’ is to get you and other LDS to WAKE UP and see the lies your so called church tells you. One of which is this stupid, stupid, stupid idea that God has ‘hidden’ knowledge for the ‘worthy’ (milk before meat). The LDS idea of ‘milk before meat’ is not only a twisting of scripture (no surprise there) but feeds their self-righteousness.

God does not lie, and He does not keep what is sacred a secret.

LUCIFER LIED!!! He wasn’t teaching meat before milk. Do you have any idea how blasphemous your statement is?!?!?!

And your statement also goes against LDS theology that states the ‘fall’ was a ‘fall upward’ and Adam and Eve HAD to sin in order to have children.

So which is it? did they ‘stumble’? Or were they ‘courageous’ by sinning against God?


346 posted on 05/24/2010 8:28:06 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu; Logophile; SZonian
Bruce R. McConkie like the Pratt brothers never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost! Get real and stop trying to see something that is not there!

The Mormon godhead: Father Son and Holy Ghost.

Mormonism 101 (for you students on this bright Monday morning):

Q. What is the Mormon 'godhead'?

A. The 'Mormon godhead,' while originally derived from the KJV Bible (used three times in the KJV NT) and simply reflects the underlying Greek word for "deity" -- is a Mormon theological/cultural word that allows them to substitute a biblical word for the "Trinity" without them having to use the word, "Trinity."

Q. Why do they use that?

A. Because Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders have given the word "Trinity" a bad rap over the generations. Yet these Mormon leaders need to somehow explain all the "Trinitarian" verses in the Book of Mormon. So it allows Lds leaders to be semi-trinitarian at times -- when they need to be -- before they elsewhere reference it as an "abomination" of the devil!

Q. Could you provide Book of Mormon examples?

Oh yes. (And BTW, while I mention Book of Mormon examples below, it's not limited to that...Smith was semi-Trinitarian and engaged in modalism early on...as reflected in Doctrine & Covenants 20:28 and 35:2 -- both written in 1830...but he eventually opted for all-out polytheism).

Book of Mormon:
Intro: Testimony of Three Witnesses: And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God.
And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God.
(2 Nephi 31:21)
...the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one. (3 Nephi 11:27,36)
...every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which IS [not ARE] one eternal God... (Alma 11:44)
...given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7: Please note: the original 1830 Book of Mormon had the word "is" prior to one God...BoM editors then changed it to "are"...a "shaking-the-head" kind of thought given that they left other "testimony" untouched -- such as the 3 witnesses -- along with 2 Nephi 31:21 and Alma 11:44)
...there is a true and living God...Is there more than one God? And he answered, No (Alma 11:27-29)
...Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit...and all this, that this man might know that he was God... (Ether 3:17-18)

Other Book of Mormon verses which say that Jesus is God:
2 Nephi 10:3
2 Nephi 11:7
2 Nephi 26:12

Also, Alma 18:28 says that the Holy Ghost is God.

347 posted on 05/24/2010 8:31:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: reaganaut

satan lied to Eve.
satan lied to joseph smith.
joseph smith lied and his minions continue to lie to the lds.


348 posted on 05/24/2010 8:32:21 AM PDT by svcw (Habakkuk 2:3)
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To: SZonian; restornu

That’s some pretty aggressive boasting you have going on right there. You’ve attended EVERY “mainstream” church and have studied their doctrines enough to be able to lay that absurd claim in this forum?

Do you have ANY PROOF to substantiate that claim?

- - - - -
Of course she doesn’t. And how can someone who cannot put together a coherent sentence or understand BASIC theology expect us to believe that they understand the doctrines of all ‘mainstream’ churches?

Really, talk about absurd...


349 posted on 05/24/2010 8:33:58 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut
Do you have any idea how blasphemous your lds statements is are?!?!?!
350 posted on 05/24/2010 8:34:24 AM PDT by svcw (Habakkuk 2:3)
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To: svcw
Only as far as its translated correctly

LOL

351 posted on 05/24/2010 8:46:01 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: svcw

much better. Thank you.


352 posted on 05/24/2010 8:52:41 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu

A) Source?

B) It is referenceing PARABLES not secret doctrine. A Parable is a form of address.

C) ALL THINGS were revealed upon His death. I stated that in my original post about this.

D) Christ’s use of parables is in no way the same as the LDS hiding doctrine under the guise of ‘milk before meat’.

Not even a really good try, Resty.


353 posted on 05/24/2010 8:57:41 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu

Genesis 3 doesn’t state ANYTHING about Lucifer teaching meat before milk.

More LDS scripture twisting.


354 posted on 05/24/2010 8:58:24 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu; Elsie

I will do you one better I will show you from the OT & NT that there were angel men

- - - - -
NOPE, not even close.

Just because angels can take on human form to fulfill their duty IN NO WAY means they are human.


355 posted on 05/24/2010 9:00:31 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu; Godzilla; Logophile; SZonian
Bruce R. McConkie like the Pratt brothers never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost! Get real and stop trying to see something that is not there!

As I covered in my last post, the Mormon use of “godhead” – while providing some limited plausible cover for Mormon leaders in trying to “explain” the Trinitarian Book of Mormon & D&C passages (though I’m not really sure how “godhead” is really less of a “Trinitarian” term than “Trinity” – all of this has left vast confusion amongst Lds theologians and grassroots alike)

#1, it’s yet another reasons Lds don’t really “go” for theologians, at all, given the vast confusing maze of Mormonistic thought.

Lds “apostle” Bruce R. McConkie is Exhibit A: (Imagine an Lds attorney being such an exhibit)
Here we have the ONLY Lds general authority presumptive enough to write a book called “Mormon Doctrine” – and have it stick on the scene for about half a century of Mormonism. An article last week in the Salt Lake Trib -- Landmark 'Mormon Doctrine' goes out of print -- says of McConkie’s book: "Mormon Doctrine served two generations of the Mormon rank and file as the main authoritative source of LDS teachings," said LDS sociologist Armand Mauss. "With its authoritative tone and constant promotion from high places, it came to be regularly cited in the church curriculum, especially in [Church Educational System] materials, and soon took on almost a scriptural stature."..."The book became one of the all-time best-sellers in Mormondom," they wrote, "achieving the near-canonical status..."

(You would have NEVER thought of the above given the way Resty took pot shots at McConkie in post # 317!!!)

#2 So, here we have a Mormon general authority, “apostle” level…
…bestowed by having a book published under 7 different Lds “prophets” (McKay, Lee, Kimball, Benson, Hunter, Hinckley, Monson)…
…a book published by the Mormon-church owned Deseret Book Publishers (1993)…
…and you might think that Resty has some kind of point when she says that “McConkie…never denied the Godhead Father Son and Holy Ghost!”

But have you read the book Mormon Doctrine, Resty? Yes? No?

What is interesting about this book is that here we have the leading Mormon theologian & general authority of his day, and yet he himself became vastly confused over simple mathematics when it came to describing God!!!

Allow me to elaborate:

* How many (true) gods are worshiped according to this LDS apostle's "Mormon Doctrine" 1966 book? (Three according to the Mormon definition of Heavenly Father and Jesus and the Holy Ghost being three separate gods): "Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)

* Oh, wait a minute. (I should have kept reading). McConkie, on p. 848, only emphasizes worshiping two gods: "The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship....No one can worship the Father without also worshiping the Son....It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 848).

* Oh, wait. By 1982, McConkie changes his mind upon giving a special devo @ BYU almost 28 years ago (March 2, 1982, "Our Relationship with the Lord.") Essentially, McConkie wasn't happy with either his "3" god or "2" god worship. So he came up with a kind of 1 1/2-god worship to present to BYU students:

We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

Bottom line: Resty, McConkie couldn’t even define the godhead, let alone promote or deny Him!

So, tell us, Resty, is the "Godhead" a Him or a Them. For worship purposes, McConkie, leading Mormon theologian, didn't seem to have a clue. He was vastly confused.

Mormons, don't you think it's time to leave this tangled mass of confusion all behind?

Come to the true Jesus. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. If you and your spouse can share the same last-name identity. The same flesh (Jesus says in Matt. 19 you become one flesh). If that's true of you, then God certainly knows how to be even more intimately diverse, yet definingly ONE personal and inter-personal BEING!

356 posted on 05/24/2010 9:03:55 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: reaganaut

And your statement also goes against LDS theology that states the ‘fall’ was a ‘fall upward’ and Adam and Eve HAD to sin in order to have children.

So which is it? did they ‘stumble’? Or were they ‘courageous’ by sinning against God?
____________________________________________________

So any mormon females who want a maternity eternity have got to sin to get it ???

No wonder they are punished forever with painful childbearing ...

What sick twisted freaky puppie thought up that one ???


357 posted on 05/24/2010 9:24:49 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: svcw

Real Biblical Christ Placemarker


358 posted on 05/24/2010 9:26:32 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: restornu; Elsie; T Minus Four; svcw; SZonian; aMorePerfectUnion

Resty - reference by reference - nothing you posted says anything about humans being angels BEFORE our ‘first estate’ (original post) or even that humans HAVE ‘estates’.

Really, Resty, the LDS need to learn how to read the Bible.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

*** Ecc 3 - 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. — Here is the literal from the Hebrew of that verse. “estate” is only in the ENGLISH and only in the KJV

I-said I in·heart-of·me on matter-of sons-of the·human to·to-purify-of·them the·Elohim and·to·to-show-of which·they beast they to them (http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/qoh3.pdf)

Ecc 3:18 -
New International Version (©1984)
I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals.

New Living Translation (©2007)
I also thought about the human condition—how God proves to people that they are like animals.

English Standard Version (©2001)
I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
I said to myself concerning the sons of men, “God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts.”

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I thought to myself, “God is going to test humans in order to show them that they are [like] animals.”

King James Bible
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

American King James Version
I said in my heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

American Standard Version
I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.

Bible in Basic English
I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, so that God may put them to the test and that they may see themselves as beasts.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I said in my heart concerning the sons of men, that God would prove them, and shew them to be like beasts.

Darby Bible Translation
I said in my heart, It is thus with the children of men, that God may prove them, and that they should see that they themselves are but beasts.

English Revised Version
I said in mine heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.

Webster’s Bible Translation
I said in my heart concerning the state of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

World English Bible
I said in my heart, “As for the sons of men, God tests them, so that they may see that they themselves are like animals.

Young’s Literal Translation
I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.

*****************

Ezekiel 16 (Yet in the last days the Lord will again establish his covenant with her.) -— This is in no way related to ‘estates’. Not sure why you put it in.

************

Jude 1 (Contend for the faith—Some angels kept not their first estate—Michael disputed about the body of Moses—Enoch prophesied of Second Coming—Mockers shall come in the last days.) - using LDS heading does not count as providing scripture. And I have already proven that the LDS take this out of context upthread.

********

Abraham 3(and the second estate of man. ) - Using proven fraudlent works does nothing to advance the LDS cause.


359 posted on 05/24/2010 9:29:57 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Tennessee Nana

LDS doctrine is that Adam and Eve HAD to sin, because otherwise they could never have had children. They teach that the ‘fall’ was a GOOD thing because it was necessary for us to come to earth to get our bodies to progress to Godhood.


360 posted on 05/24/2010 9:32:00 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-mormon, now Christan - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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