What kind of message did they preach? Was it Scriptural?
Just a guess, but as a male I would prefer a more traditional service down the block.
Feminine mass Feminine sermons. Feminine priests. What do you expect?
The congregation was very diminished. The choir was no more. The "pastor" was a woman. As I was leaving, I realized I was the only man in the place. It was really weird. My wife didn't feel comfortable there either. She is completely against women serving as priests, ministers, pastors etc.
Of coure, I am not affliated with the Presby church anymore; Southern Baptist.
I know you said your Church had a male pastor, but as another poster mentioned maybe the men are more inclined to attend a "traditional" Church. Or maybe the message is watered down; feminine.
Our Church does two services. Morning service is with a Praise Band. The afternoon servie is traditional; its the one I go to.
I’ve been at churches that have been both male-led and female-led. Here is what tends to happen:
MALE-LED:
1. Men generally respect a male-led institution, so they show up.
2. Women are delighted that their husbands are taking an interest in religion, so they show up as well.
3. Ambitious women who can’t be in leadership or preaching positions decide to show they are as smart as anyone by taking over other areas of the church and often do a great job at it. Children’s programs, music, and arts flourish. Life is good.
WOMEN-LED:
1. While some women want to provide good leadership, women with grievances about organized religion worm their way into leadership positions. The problem is that honorable women sometimes have a problem telling other women that certain ideas are unworkable. Furthermore, men will often not want to get involved in a dispute between two women. It’s just human nature.
2. All areas of the church become open to women. Women start dominating all areas as men don’t feel like competing with women.
3. Men drop out.
4. The families drop out with them.
5. The church starts to get really liberal as unmarried women dominate the leadership.
6. Conservatives leave.
7. The church goes on with empty pews, budget deficits and “a commit to social justice.”
It’s unfair, I know, and I apologize to the many conservative women out there who would make great pastors and church leaders. But I’m just writing about what I’ve seen.
men are not at chruch because men are treated like they are not wanted and so, surprise, they leave.
church services have been diminished to meaningless so why bother?
We have an active Knights of Columbus group at our parish. That’s where you’ll find men.
Where are the men?..........They are at a TLM. No altar girls, no EMHCs, people dress appropriately, no folk music,etc. I drive 45 minutes to an hour and it is well worth it.
It seems to me that this concern has been voiced in the past, and it’s a valid one.
When men give up their God-ordained role as spiritual head of their family, women fill the vacuum.
Sad.
Listen, the world is not all honky-dorrey all the time when men are in charge. It depends on the men. Some have no concept of hospitality. Some just are not organized and many don't pay attention enough to detail to make it all come off well (we won't get into the last time the altar boys' surplices were ironed). Fortunately, when it comes to the vestments, the sisters that serve the archbishop take care of cleaning, repairing, pressing, etc.
It comes down to the pastor and how well he has things in control. I'm not talking about being a tyrant or a "pray, pay and obey" sort. I mean a man who has the gift of being able to lead the people well and right and somehow get the women WANT to do other things. A lot of times, the happy clappy places are the parishes left open to house the revolutionaries to keep them out of the rest of the archdiocese. Even here, in the Rome of the West, where there are at least 10 Latin Masses every weekend and liturgical correctness tightens more every year, there are a handful of parishes that are abominations liturgically. The newer mega-churches out in the county are hideous. Each Newman center at the various universities is, to be kind, experimental. Up on the north side, one of the most famous churches is really a Redemptorist mission that ROCKS on Sunday and one devout daily Mass-goer I knew was convinced it wasn't really a Catholic Church.
So, even those of us who are in places where Canon I is the norm with bells and incense and organ and chant, etc., can be one parish away from crap. I just feel bad for the women who are convinced that in order to fully participate in parish life, they have to be "on stage" at Mass. To be honest, it can be wearing week in and week out.
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REAL MEN DON'T EAT SPIRITUAL QUICHE.
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2 Timothy 3:4-6 (New Living Translation) 4 They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that! 6 They are the kind who work their way into people’s homes and win the confidence of[a] vulnerable women who are burdened with the guilt of sin and controlled by various desires. 2 Timothy 3:4-6 (Amplified Bible) 4[They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God. 5For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them]. 6For among them are those who worm their way into homes and captivate silly and weak-natured and spiritually dwarfed women, loaded down with [the burden of their] sins [and easily] swayed and led away by various evil desires and seductive impulses.
There are a lot of factors responsible for the dearth of men in the forefront of spiritual battles, positions and roles.
1. Most authentic men I know, hate CHURCHIANITY. They hate the form of religion that denies the POWER OF GOD a la Acts 2; I Cor 12-14.
2. Most authentic Christian men hate phoney, shallow stuff. They want spirituality (and authentic relationships) that they can sink their teeth into—invest their essential man-identity into . . . and achieve something real and lasting for The Kingdom, thereby.
3. Most authentic men I know are weary of going through all the hoops—at work, at home, at church—with too little to too questionable a set of results.
4. Most authentic men I know are WEARY, PERIOD. The world, the flesh and the devil have conspired very successfully to run them ragged—usually for chaff reasons yielding chaff or worse results. Trying to pile meaningless, phony, shallow, fossilized, POWERLESS pseudo-‘Christian’-flesh-driven-striving-used _______ rags-of-works-of-‘righteousness’ on top of their already overburdened backs is not the least bit attractive.
5. Most authentic men I know are mostly friendless—certainly in the Biblical iron-sharpening-iron sense—and much more so in the David-Jonathan sense.
6. Yet, sometime ago when Christianity Today polled men about what they most wanted to do when they got to Heaven—by far the majority top answer was: Sit on Daddy’s lap. I found that shockingly amazing yet perfectly predictable.
7. Most men of all kinds have not been remotely adequately fathered. Nor were their fathers adequately fathered—certainly not in the full robust Righteous Biblical sense. The enemy of our souls has made varying degrees of REACTIVE ATTACHMENT DISORDER a raging, rampant epidemic in our culture.
8. I think Henry Wright is accurate when he declares that all addictions are a function of insufficient love—particularly insufficient Daddy love early in life.
Am working on ways to help strengthen, build relationships in our local congregation. Somehow, we must energize and facilitate authentic men engaging more in such and being supported in engaging more in deeper and more spiritually alive, healthily bonded male relationships full of Holy Spirit’s leading and empowering.
HERE'S SOME ARTICLES, LINKS on the broad general topic:
A Jesus for Real Men What the new masculinity movement gets right and wrong. Brandon O'Brien | posted 4/18/2008 09:19AM The article gets into such issues as are raised by John Eldridge in his excellent video series and book: WILD AT HEART. Here's an excerpt from the article: Inspired by Murrow, comedian Brad Stine began GodMen, a ministry that provides space in which "men can be men; raw and uninhibited; completely free to express themselves in the uniquely male way that only men understand." In a 2002 GodMen meeting, this experience included videos of karate fights, car chases, and songs like "Grow a Pair!" whose lyrics read: It's not sung to the tune of "In the Garden."
Feminized by the culture crowd
No more nice guy, timid and ashamed …
Grab a sword, don't be scared
Be a man, grow a pair!
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/april/27.48.html
Here's another article on the topic:
IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE A REAL MAN or Serving Christ in a masculine way… Let me start by saying that I do not write this open letter against women or their role and privileges in the church. . . . But although God made men and women equal in value and honour, the Bible is clear that God made us different. Men should serve God in a masculine way, because this God’s way for the guys. Almost a 150 years ago in speaking on the challenges of being a Christian man, C.H. Spurgeon said, ‘there has got abroad a notion, some how, that if you become a Christian you must sink your manliness and turn milksop’. (Milksop is bread soaked in milk but it also means someone who is a weak and easily frightened man, a “sissy”.) One of the problems among Christian men is a lack of understanding of what it means to be ‘more like Jesus’, as men. We know that we are to grow to be more like Jesus (Col.1:28), and to lead like Jesus (Eph.5:25) in our relationships and responsibilities. The problem is that most Christian men see Jesus more as a feminine type than a masculine one, or as I read in a book this week (No More Christian Nice Guy by Paul Coughlin), the vast majority of Christian men see Jesus as a bearded woman!!! Paul Coughlin shows how he learned to say no to the "nice guy" syndrome. After all, Christian nice guys aren't always so nice. In the name of appearing Christian by being agreeable, they can lie, keep secrets, manipulate, duck responsibility, and much more. Using the biblical model of Christ as his example of a real man, Coughlin shows men how to become both gentle and bold. This is a powerful challenge and a hopeful message that elevates the true biblical model of manhood above prevailing views in contemporary culture. If I ask you to describe the ultimate man, what image comes to mind? For most Christian men, Jesus is not the image that comes to mind. In his book The Heart Of A Tender Warrior, Stu Weber writes, “Why is it when someone says, picture the archetypal male, the image that comes to mind is not one of Jesus? For years, the picture in my mind would not have been Jesus. Every portrait of Jesus makes him look more like a pouting model for shampoo than a man”. This is sad, but it is true. Our image of Jesus is one of a nice guy, a “milksop”, a sissy, who was always gentle, meek, mild, did not defend what he knew was right, was not a highly motivated provider and would do anything not to offend anyone. This is not a biblical picture of Jesus! When you turn to the gospels you discover a man who we’re told was born to bring division, and who would be the cause of the destruction and salvation of many people (Luke 2:34; 12:51; Matt.10:34). You discover a man who spoke the truth and spoke up publicly against hypocrisy calling the religious leaders of his day snakes fit for hell, and decomposing corpses that stunk and polluted others (Matt.3:7; 23:27, 33). You discover a man who thought his disciples were too slow and let them know about it (Matt.17:17). You discover a man who threatened judgment to those who were spiritually unfruitful (Luke 13:6-9). You discover a man who got physical when he saw God’s name dishonoured (Mark.11:15-17). The Bible’s picture of Jesus is one of a man who openly confronted lies and deception, who spoke the truth boldly, who spoke up against hypocrisy, who spoke judgment, who wasn’t afraid to embarrass those who deserved it, who jealously acted to guard God’s honour, and who wasn’t trying to please everyone. Jesus was no milksop, he wasn’t a sensitive new age guy, and he wasn’t a bearded woman. In fact, in the last book of the Bible, Jesus is portrayed as a divine warrior who initiates God’s final salvation and judgment (Rev.19:11-21) Yes, we certainly also discover that Jesus was tender and gentle. His strength was matched by tenderness. His power was matched by gentleness. His masculinity was matched by compassion.
[continued at the link]
From:
http://www.centurionwest.co.za/pdf/art_realmen.pdf
HERE'S A WORTHY BOOK ABOUT RAISING REAL MEN:
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Real-Men-Surviving-Appreciating/dp/0984144307?tag=dogpile-20
Here's more from Christianity Today:
What the new masculinity movement gets right and wrong. Brandon O'Brien | posted 4/18/2008 09:19AM 2 of 4 ------------------------------------------------------------ Paul Coughlin, author of No More Christian Nice Guy (Bethany House, 2005), agrees: The problem with the wimpy Jesus of the popular imagination is that "a meek and mild Jesus eventually is a bore. He doesn't inspire us." I respect what these authors are trying to accomplish. They recognize that the Jesus of the Bible—unlike the Jesus of much contemporary Christian art and music—was not afraid to denounce, challenge, and offend. After all, he called the Pharisees vipers and Peter the Devil. Thus, the greatest contribution of the movement is that it identifies ways the American church has reduced Christian discipleship to minding one's manners. Murrow is right; much of a typical experience in church is "sweet and sentimental, nurturing and nice." For these writers, nice is an expletive that summarizes the church's digression from radical discipleship to simple moralizing. In short, the movement reminds us of what Jesus and Paul insisted: The gospel is an offense and discipleship is an invitation to the cross. Re-masculating Jesus The movement's method of reclaiming the radical nature of the gospel, however, poses a genuine threat to Christian discipleship. These authors see the church's fixation on morality as part and parcel of the church's feminization, and they suggest that the solution is to inject the church with a heavy dose of testosterone. In other words, allowing women to create Jesus in their image has emasculated him; thus, regaining a biblical image of Christ is as simple as re-masculating him. The masculinity movement's solution assumes that Jesus came to model genuine masculinity. The authors don't say so explicitly, but their rhetoric assumes manly instincts are inherently godly. In Wild at Heart Eldredge claims, "We are never told to kill the true man within us, never told to get rid of those deep desires for battle and adventure and beauty." The GodMen repeat the theme: "None of our maleness is toned down because we believe … that we are fearfully and wonderfully made." These statements imply that when the church adopts the supposedly male psyche, it fulfills its purpose, but when it conforms to the supposedly female psyche, it becomes aberrant.
[continued at the link below]:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/april/27.48.html?start=2
Here's another article:
Top ArticleAll 7 Articles 1 of 7 Write now Article Tools by Garian ClarkIn today's contemporary society, the definition of a "real man" seems to change almost constantly. We are bombarded with images from the media depicting what a man is supposed to look like, talk like, and act like, often from a worldly perspective. Some say that a "real man" must be physically strong, with large biceps and rippling muscles. Some say that a "real man" does not show emotion and never exposes any weaknesses. Others say that a "real man" is one who never backs down from a fight and will defend his pride at all costs. Finally, many believe that a "real man" is judged by how many women he can subdue and conquer at any given time. It is not a surprise that young men, particularly young black men, are confused about how to conduct themselves as men in today's world.
[continued at the link below]: http://www.helium.com/items/232526-qualities-of-the-real-christian-man
Here's another article . . . about why REAL MEN DON'T DO CHURCH . . . from the UK:
Jonathan Sherwin Carl Beech has just finished a four-part series entitled ‘Real Men Don’t Do Church’ over on the CVM Blog. Looking at why men might not find church in the UK appealing today, Carl analyses the problem before offering helpful advice on what to do about it. “Most men completely by-pass church. They see it as a place that according to a BBC radio survey is for wimps, women and irrelevant! Let’s not make the mistake of thinking that when the “wheels come off” in a man’s life they look to the church. A small minority might, but for the most part their perception of what/who Jesus is and stands for will be quite the opposite of what they feel they need in a crisis. So what are we going to do to put hairs back on the chest of the Gospel?”
[Continued at the link below]:
http://www.smokeygecko.com/blog/2009/real-men-dont-do-church/
Here's another article titled WHERE ARE THE MEN:
by Andy Zoppelt I have often wondered--where are the real men in Christianity? Somehow you can find them in the world, but where are they in the church? Someone once responded to the question of where are the men by saying, "We have asked them to become women." While working in a steel mill back in Pennsylvania, men were challenged and were competitive. We did things together. We worked together, drank together, fought together and played together. There was a sense of competition, adventure and camaraderie. When I was drafted into the military, I signed up for airborne training…. for the extra drinking money. Yes, when you jump out of planes in the military they pay you a little more money. I was a scrapper, a drinker and a womanizer, and that all cost money. But there was adventure and a sense of being important. I heard a man once say, the military can take a young rebellious man for four years and give him a career, stability, and a place in society; the church has a man for twenty years and he is no more than a pew warmer. He is touchy, indifferent and alone. He just believes what he is told and sits quietly in the pew only to drop a portion of his hard earned pay in the basket in hopes of heaven at the end of the trail. [Quix’d emphasis] In the military we developed meaningful relationships. Men could be men. You were proud to be a paratrooper, you put up with the hard training because you were made to feel like a man. Dangers and challenge drew us together. The fight to be better and to achieve was a motivating force. When there was a fight, we stood with our buddies. We didn't rat on one another and turn one another in. There was an unwritten moral code of conduct. If you violated it, you were forced out and marked by others.
[I think this article has a lot of useful stuff to say]
[Continued at the link below]:
http://www.therealchurch.com/articles/where_are_the_men.html
Here's a link to a video with the following intro:
Picture this. Men from all walks of life: every age, color, denomination, status and region. Their over-committed, over-burdened lives come to a screeching halt as they sit captivated by the screen in front of them. They laugh, they cry, they ponder the similarities between these characters and their own. Every Sunday, men walk in and out of churches, yet almost always miss what God has for them. They hear messages about different topics. They are asked to serve, pray, usher, greet, help with kids, play the drums with the worship team and be better men for Christ. Yet they are never given a compelling reason to go beyond “performance based” Christianity. “Why am I here?”, they ask themselves. And they are so steeped in the troubles of the world, that the transforming power of Jesus has been overshadowed by foreclosures, war, internet pornography and failed marriages. In the hearts of most men, the white noise of the world has drowned out His still, small voice. The sad fact is that men in America’s churches today have hundreds of acquaintances and no real friends. We shake hands with many, yet know very few. There is a saying in business, “Your system is perfectly designed to produce the results that you are getting”. Our discipleship system in the church is perfectly designed for the men that we have sitting in the pews…or not sitting in the pews, as the case may be. [Quix’d emphasis] Furthermore, our culture has become one of the most prevalent ways that our men are forming their worldview. Pop culture, especially television and movies, has depicted men as watered down wimps who have no solid ground upon which to stand. These fictitious characters have become the new “normal”, discarding any semblance of faith, integrity or leadership. Through the ROUGH CUT MEN experience, men see how the pop culture that has played a role in forming men can be used to develop relationships amongst them. Throughout the event, we watch movie clips which reflect where men are, in an effort to get them into David and Jonathan relationships with one another. The Bible says, “Pity the man who falls and has no one to pick him up”…we all need to be back-to-back with someone in order to be victorious in the battle for men’s souls. Relationships are the axis upon which discipleship revolves. Until the walls of self-preservation that the world puts around men fall down, discipleship will yet be another “task” assigned by the church. Until we realize that we are not alone, we will live in our own walled-in world.
From:
http://www.reachingeveryman.com/
Here's a pdf article about
FROM
I PRAY that authentic Christian FREEPER men will rise up and take their rightful Biblical places in their congregations and particularly in their relationships.
Fortunately in our parish our men still take an active role.
A few years ago I saw Father Larry Richards give a talk at an Esto Vir conference. The place was packed with over 400 men. Father Richards had encountered the same thing when he was sent to a new parish. After a few weeks he decided that enough was enough.
After each Mass he kept the men inside the church and sent everyone else out. He then had them say the Rosary, and then leveled them with how disgraceful their inactions were to not only God but also to their families.
He turned that parish around, and now has an active, vital parish where the men are front and center in their involvement with the church and their family's spiritual direction.
Where are the men?
Indeed and not just in the church.
I have found I enjoy and get a lot more out of a Latin mass. I would suggest that. Don’t give up on the mass, just find a Latin one! The Catholic mass in America has really lost it’s way, but Pope Benedict is trying to re-introduce good music again. Also, a more faithful Roman Missal is getting ready to be implemented, so there is still hope.
http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/
Hopefully, there is a church by you that has a Latin mass that you can attend.
Here’s two sources that will help:
http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/churches.htm
http://www.latinmasstimes.com/