Posted on 05/13/2010 5:53:09 AM PDT by markomalley
Italy’s first woman priest is to be ordained a close to the Vatican later this month.
Maria Vittoria Longhitano, 35, a member of the Italian Old Catholic Church, a breakaway group not recognised by the Vatican, will be ordained at All Saints Church, near the Spanish Steps in Rome, on 22 May.
A spokeswoman for All Saints Church said Ms Longhitano, who is married, was not being ordained as an Anglican. “We are offering our church as the venue because the Old Catholics have no venue of their own in Rome,” she said. “They use our facilities for their regular worship.”
The Old Catholics, founded in the early 19th century in an attempt to set up a national Italian denomination separate from Rome, do not accept a number of central Catholic doctrines including papal infallibility and the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
Now now. Not very Christian of you. (and no, I don’t believe in the ordination of women).
“The Catholic Church is “as doomed” as the Episcopal Church ... for the same reasons. Liberals in the pews.”
I’m thinking you maybe didn’t read the article too closely.
The Catholic Church is never going to have priestesses as clergy.
Freegards
” Flightdeck: what do you believe about the Church?”
As far as what’s relevant to this conversation, I believe that the Church has the noblest of original intentions: to spread the same message that Jesus did while alive. It also constructed of people as sinful as you and I, and as ignorant as any human. In the time when Church doctrine was made, this ignorance likely included chauvinism where men either didn’t believe women were intellectual/spiritual equals or didn’t want them in a position of power.
I could be wrong, but I doubt Jesus would have a problem with a woman spreading his message in official capacity. And even then, Jesus was also human and failed on at least two occasions by his own admission. So maybe I should say that I doubt God would have a problem with a woman spreading his message in official capacity.
Either way, I’m glad you chose the route of civil discussion, as opposed to the other fool who is too thick to realize his “defense” of the church (now deleted) was the only thing anti-Christian posted on this thread.
No, He doesn't have a problem with women spreading His message in an official capacity
LOL!
I hope they are allowed to marry male nuns
YHvH did away with the need for priests in 70 CE.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Actually the male/female thing could be almost referred to as a thin veneer. One of the primary reasons for male Clergy is that the Priest takes on a spousal relationship to the Church which is “Mother” therefore you could not have a female take a Spousal relationship with the Church unless you could have same sex “marriage”.
And of course to have same sex “marriage” you would need to change the very nature of Marriage.
Therefore to have Women Priests you would need to change the very nature of the Clerical State as it is defined within the Catholic Church....aka In Persona Christi Capitis.
If in fact Clergy are merely Liturgical Functionaries as many Protestant Groups view them (more deep Theology as it pertains to the Nature of the Sacraments, but for another discussion), then I don’t think anyone would oppose Women Clergy, but given the Theology of the Catholic Church I cannot see how a woman could ever be validly ordained in the Catholic Church.
It is not a negative statement against women to say they cannot be validly Ordained, many I am sure are saddened by this, but it cannot be done anymore than some could validly ordain something else.
I would even argue that many women, as mothers themselves (grandmothers or at least serving in the maternal capacity) often do more to pass on the Faith than many who have been Ordained.
It all comes down to the old addage “Matter Maters”, as with the Eucharist you cannot confect Chocalate Chip Cookes, you cannot use the inappropriate matter to Ordain, in this case a Woman.
And one other comment as it pertains to the article,
First, this is a Protestant Church, I don’t know their Theology as it pertains to the Clerical State, but they are Protestant.
In the time when Church doctrine was made, this ignorance likely included chauvinism where men either didn’t believe women were intellectual/spiritual equals or didn’t want them in a position of power.
But here I think we run into the problem I mentioned before. Christianity took on very much of the entrenched social order (pagan and Jewish) head on. So why didn't it do so with chauvinism? How is it that saintly pupils of the Apostles like Polycarp or Ignatius or Clement just let this initial chauvinism go by without correcting it? See what I'm saying? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you are having trouble seeing the Church as an institution that is *protected* against error by Christ Himself.
I could be wrong, but I doubt Jesus would have a problem with a woman spreading his message in official capacity. And even then, Jesus was also human and failed on at least two occasions by his own admission. So maybe I should say that I doubt God would have a problem with a woman spreading his message in official capacity.
Well, spread the message in an official capacity, absolutely. The women were the first to see the Resurrection. And just look at Joan of Arc. And Catherine of Siena had to lecture the Pope. And Mother Angelica had to battle the bishops. But did they have to become priests to do it?
Wanna’ bet? That’s what the Episcopalian’s said ... they’ll keep coming at them until they give in. Betcha’ $5! :-)
The Catholic Church is never, never, NEVER going to have priestesses. Same thing with the Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. If a Christian woman wants to claim she is a “woman priest” (two words combined that can’t make sense), fine. But she wouldn’t be part of the clergy of the Church in any case.
Freegards
Yeah, pretty funny too how Christ was a man. In personae Christae and all.
“So why didn’t it do so with chauvinism?”
Each wife her own husband, each husband her own wife. Equality of function != Equality of value.
Except that they didn’t and preached the equality of value between men and women, even in marriage.
That the men are priests has to do with the fact that they have a specific role in the church, as do the women. WRT to ‘value’ there is no difference.
It’s like complaining that men can’t have children. The Catholic church, unlike others, gives men a significant role in the church. Considering how feminised most are, I don’t see the teachings of the Apostles to be ‘chaunvinistic’.
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