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To: roamer_1; metmom

Name a TRUE Miracle produced by satan?

Here is something to help you from Father Jordan Aumann http://www.catholicintl.com/catholicissues/apparitions-truefalse-print.htm

Excerpts...

What the devils can and cannot do

The devils cannot do the following:

(1) Produce any kind of truly supernatural phenomenon;

(2) Create a substance, since only God can create;

(3) Bring a dead person back to life, although they could produce the illusion of doing so;

(4) Make truly prophetic predictions, since only God knows the future absolutely, and those to whom He chooses to reveal a portion of it. However, the devil’s intelligent conjecture about the future might appear to mere mortals a prophecy;

(5) Know the secrets of a person’s mind and heart. However, their shrewd intelligence and observation may enable them to deduce many things about a person.

But the devils can do the following:

(1) Produce corporeal or imaginative visions;

(2) Falsify ecstasy;

(3) Instantaneously cure sicknesses that have been caused by diabolical influence;

(4) Produce the stigmata;

(5) Simulate miracles and the phenomena of levitation and bilocation;(6) Make people or objects seem to disappear by interfering with a person’s sight or line of vision;

(7) Cause a person to hear sounds or voices;

(8) Cause a person to speak in tongues;

(9) Declare a fact which is hidden or distant.

Whatever nature or science can cause, the devils too are able to cause, according to what God may permit. See the Book of Exodus where the magicians and sorcerers of Pharaoh were able to accomplish some of the prodigies wrought by Moses and Aaron (Ex 7:11-12; 7:22; 8:7; 8:18-19; 9:11). Close to 200 A.D., Tertullian writes, “first of all, they [the demons] make you ill; then to get a miracle out of it, they prescribe remedies either completely novel, or contrary to those in use, and thereupon withdrawing hurtful influence, they are supposed to have wrought a cure.” (Apology of the Christian religion, 22).

In the face of the fallen angels’ power to deceive, it is no wonder that the Church is always very slow to declare a miracle or message authentic.

The devil has superhuman intelligence and is very clever, and to pretend that you can definitively judge in favour of something’s authenticity, without help, is presumptuous.

To know if something is false, it suffices to know that it says something contrary to the teaching of the Church. Hence, it is easier to pronounce against visionaries than in their favour. But the mere absence of doctrinal error is not enough. There have to be other positive indications.

The following quotations are from the final chapter of the rock-solid book Spiritual Theology (Sheed & Ward 1980) by Dominican Father Jordan Aumann.

Signs of the diabolical spirit

“…[S]ince the devil may disguise himself as a good spirit and even cause what appears to be authentic mystical phenomena, it is helpful to mention briefly the various signs of the diabolical spirit.

1. Spirit of falsity. The devil is the father of lies, but he cleverly conceals his deceit by half-truths and pseudo-mystical phenomena.

2. Morbid curiosity. This is characteristic of those who eagerly seek out the esoteric aspects of mystical phenomena or have a fascina­tion for the occult or preternatural.

3. Confusion, anxiety, and deep depression.

4. Obstinacy. One of the surest signs of a diabolical spirit.

5. Constant indiscretion and a restless spirit. Those who constantly go to extremes, as in penitential exercises or apostolic activity, or ne­glect their primary obligations to do some personally chosen work.

6. Spirit of pride and vanity. Very anxious to publicize their gifts of grace and mystical experiences.

7. False humility. This is the disguise for their pride and self-love.

8. Despair, lack of confidence, and discouragement. A chronic characteristic that alternates with presumption, vain security, and un­founded optimism.” (p. 412)

Fr Aumann mentions other signs also: Impatience in suffering and stubborn resentment; Uncontrolled passions and strong inclination to sensuality, usually under the guise of mystical union; Hypocrisy, simulation, and duplicity; Excessive attachment to sensible consolations, particularly in their practice of prayer; Lack of deep devotion to Jesus and Mary; Scrupulous adherence to the letter of the law and fanatical zeal in promoting a cause.

Signs of the human spirit

“The human spirit is always inclined to its own satisfactions; it is a friend of pleasure and an enemy of suffering of any kind. It readily inclines to anything that is compatible with its own temperament, its personal tastes and caprices, or the satisfaction of self-love. It will not hear of humiliations, penance, renunciation, or mortification. If any director or confessor goes against its inclinations, he is immediately branded as inept and incompetent. It seeks success, honors, applause, and pastimes. It is always a great promoter of anything that will arouse admiration or notoriety. In a word, the human spirit neither understands nor cares for anything except its own egoism.

“It is sometimes difficult in practice to judge whether given man­ifestations proceed from the devil or from a purely human and egois­tic spirit, but it is always relatively easy to distinguish between these two and the spirit of God. It will be possible in most cases, therefore, to determine that a given spirit could not possibly be from God and that it must be combatted, even if one is not sure whether it is in fact from the devil or the human ego.” (p. 413)


728 posted on 05/02/2010 11:27:06 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi

This is excellent and supports Protestants when they say that the “miracles” of a “vision “ are satanic deception


729 posted on 05/02/2010 11:33:15 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: stfassisi; roamer_1; metmom; Quix
Thank you all for this interesting sidebar, dear brothers and sister in Christ!

False Christs and false prophets can be very persuasive:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - Matt 24:24

But we can discern them by asking as Christ did (paraphrased) Who is Christ?

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. - 1 John 4:1-3

Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. - Matthew 22:42

That is because no creature can confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord which is to say, that Jesus Christ IS God - except by the Holy Spirit:

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. – I Cor 12:3

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - Matthew 16:15

We Christians must not accept or assist any belief which denies that Jesus Christ is the Lord:

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. - 2 John 1:9-11

God's Name is I AM and Alpha and Omega.

Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. - Psalms 91:14


744 posted on 05/02/2010 12:10:52 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: stfassisi; metmom; mlizzy
Name a TRUE Miracle produced by satan?

The interplay between Moses and the magi of Egypt readily spring to mind (Exodus 7:11 - onward) - The Pharaoh's magicians matched Moses tit-for-tat through till the plague of flies (or thereabouts)... True be it that Moses always got the upper hand in each contest, yet the magi seemed able to compete at the first.

Here is something to help you from Father Jordan Aumann

I have no need of Aumann or any other works of men (as I already requested) in this exchange - What I would prefer is that you prove the point in the Scriptures.

For your convenience, and to wit:

[MLizzy:] The late FR John Hardon explains miracles.. "In general a miracle is any effect perceptible by the senses, produced by God which surpasses the powers of nature. Immediately we must explain that there are three levels of natural laws that God can surpass and thus perform a miracle. There are the physical laws of visible nature. Thus the sudden healing of a fatal disease surpasses needless to say the powers of human physical nature. Indeed surpasses the powers of all physical nature. Walking on water is naturally impossible. The raising of a dead human being back to life exceeds all created power, and no one but God with His omnipotence can raise a dead person back to life. And just for the record, physical miracles are the lowest level of miraculous phenomena."
[roamer_1:] I wish you would try to prove this upon the Scriptures. I do not think that you can (and I care not a whit for more blather written by men).

I do not know of any passage that says satan cannot operate outside of the natural laws, nor am I inclined to believe such a thing on it's face. In fact, I dare to say the Bible contradicts you.

Source: My post to MLizzy, this thread #721
On point, your post: This thread, #479

This is a particularly crucial point, as according to Hardon, anything which defies the laws of nature can be accepted as "of God." This is a perilous notion.

I would caution not to underestimate our adversaries.

911 posted on 05/02/2010 9:38:36 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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