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Give Your All To . . . ? . . . . [A Rel Forum Research thread--Open]
Bible, Vultus Christi, Quix's noggin ^ | 28 APR 2010; 30 APR 2010 | Jesus, Mark Kirby & Quix

Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix

GIVE IT ALL TO . . . ? . . . .

--A Research Thread--

. . .

.

7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
10 May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today the food we need,[a]
12 and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
13 And don’t let us yield to temptation,[b]
but rescue us from the evil one.[c]

--New Living Translation

7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.]

8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

9Pray, therefore, like this:

Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.
10Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven ([e]left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have [f]given up resentment against) our debtors.
13And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [g]reckless and willful sins, [h]leaving them, letting them go, and [i]giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

--Amplified

Pray with Simplicity

5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat?

6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.

7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

14-15"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God's part.

16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well.
--THE MESSAGE

Mark Kirby:

O Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Perpetual Help,
I turn with confidence to thy maternal Heart,
and I renew my total and irrevocable consecration to thee.

I am all thine, Most Holy Mary,
and all that I have is thine.
I give thee my past with its burdens.
I give thee this present moment with its anxieties and fears.
I give thee my future and all that it holds.

There is no part of my life that is not open to thee,
no place so secret, or so darkened by sin
that thy presence and thy influence
are not wholly and ardently desired there.

I want to be completely transparent with thee,
utterly simple, guileless, and childlike.
Thou knowest, O Mother,
all my preoccupations,
all my intentions,
and all those recommended to my prayer.
Take them, I beseech thee, to thy Immaculate Heart
and, as my Advocate, my all-powerful intercessor, and my Mediatrix,
present them to thy Son.
Seeing them presented by thee
and held in thy maternal Heart,
there is nothing that He will not do
to give to each intention the one response
worthy of the infinite mercy and love of His Sacred Heart.

Praying in this way, I can be at rest,
for thou art my Mother,
and all that I entrust to thee will be,
I am sure,
received, and considered, and cared for
with a Mother's love.
Amen.

.

.

.


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; exclusivity; focus; holiness; marybashing; worship
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To: MarkBsnr

Sounds lovely. A great Sunday for Mary’s month of May.


2,421 posted on 05/09/2010 5:59:06 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: count-your-change; MarkBsnr
CYC: Do you think Washington, Jefferson, et al. were worthless guys because they had slaves?

I guess we should all be Quakers or Yankee Unitarians.

2,422 posted on 05/09/2010 6:05:30 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: Mad Dawg; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; Godzilla; ...

NOT my logic.

I do not construe it that BECAUSE there are other such personages, the caricatured Mary personage is not kosher etc.

No. That’s not it.

Not sure I can wrap my fingers around this briefly and coherently . . . but here goes . . .

1. The parallels between the pagan manifestations and the excesses in the name of the caricatured Mary are plentiful beyond disturbing, to put it politely.

2. The gross lack of Biblical support for such coupled with a great amount of serious proscription against such in Scripture is far more than disturbing.

3. The competition for attention, time, energy, resources, focus with God Almighty, Jesus The Christ, Holy Spirit—whether folks within the box can see it, or not, is abjectly horrendously awful.

I’ll stop there.


2,423 posted on 05/09/2010 6:05:49 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Ken4TA
We are only missing the so-called "traditions" the RCC so strenuously push from various men and movements of the times.

The problem with Scripture-only is that you are missing the primary teachings of Christ. Jesus taught orally, and so did the early Church. Paul is the first of the NT writings that we know of, only an early draft of Matthew might have preceded it.

Not being a member of the "Reformed churches" that you refer to, we stick to what is revealed by God through the writings of Christ's inspired writers of the Bible.

While missing the teachings of the Lord himself.

The assembly I affiliate with follows the lead of the Apostles as they taught everything that Jesus told them to. We do not add nor subtract from what is written, period.

Negative. You do not follow the Didache, for instance. I will assume that you do not have the Deutercanonicals in your Bibles either.

I'd suggest a second look at the Pauline letters and especially his relationships with Timothy and some of his other subordinates. The relationship of Luke to both Peter and Paul, and Mark to Peter might also be relevant.

Thanks for the suggestion. That's exactly what we did, and we don't only read it two times, but as often as we are led by the spirit to do.

I'd suggest putting aside the Jack Daniels and reading it sober. Paul clearly outlines the growing hierarchy of the Church under himself; and so does the rest of the NT.

And, pray tell, just what are those "heresies" you think we favour? I'd like to know what they are!

The first is subordinationalism, as expressly outlined in the letters of Dickenson that you have copiously posted. After seeing that, I simply will write off whatever it is that a failed Catholic has fallen into, as so many have.

2,424 posted on 05/09/2010 6:08:47 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: count-your-change
Concerning punishment of Catholics who violate the teaching on abortion, Would any bishop petition the Vatican to have a powerful Catholic politician excommunicated? Especially one that could retaliate in some way? Or would a popular Catholic priest be excommunicated for making abortions easier to get and increasing the number performed by making the practice legal? We both know from experience the answer to these questions. To actually follow through and excommunicate such persons might impose a cost the Catholic church is not willing to bear.

To answer this, since I assume that you are writing from an America-centric POV, none so far in this country. We do know of high level negotiations, but we have no evidence that any American Catholic politician has been excommunicated. As they should. I have berated our last bishop in public and had a good deal of diocesan support.

My mother shot down this kind of logic when I was about six years old by saying she didn't care what others did, I was not to set fire to the neighbor's chicken coop and then she thrashed me soundly. I wasn't any worse than the other kids so why should I get a beating? And some kids really were hoodlums unlike myself.

I cannot argue with that logic. It is a shame in Church history and was wrong then and is wrong now. Yet the Church has come to admit its faults over the last several centuries. Look at the Jews saved by the Vatican - through the Vatican gates - during WWII from the Nazis and Fascisti. Balancing virtue against the cost, pragmatism wins outs out everytime somehow.

No; the goodness of God wins out everytime, somehow. It is just so long in coming sometimes...

2,425 posted on 05/09/2010 6:14:54 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Quix

Even if you didn’t consider your first point, the similarities to pagan religions, which I was not really aware of, so much of the teaching about Mary can be shown to be erroneous with Scripture, right out of the gospels.

The other issue IS the competition in time that God gets from Mary.

Every minute you give attention to her is one minute you are robbing God of.

Considering that we only have so much time in one day, why would you want to spend your time of devotion and prayer on another human being instead of God Himself. Why do that on someone who can’t do anything for you anyway, in direct disobedience to Christ’s command to pray to the Father, in the Lord’s prayer.


2,426 posted on 05/09/2010 6:24:25 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

CERTAINLY I fiercely agree! LOL. SIGH.


2,427 posted on 05/09/2010 6:25:39 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: MarkBsnr
The problem with Scripture-only is that you are missing the primary teachings of Christ. Jesus taught orally, and so did the early Church. Paul is the first of the NT writings that we know of, only an early draft of Matthew might have preceded it.

IOW, the Gospel writers DIDN'T relate the primary teachings of Jesus in their accounts? They wasted their time on less important teachings of secondary matters?

2,428 posted on 05/09/2010 6:27:59 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Quix
The second point would be the one that I would have the most trouble with. The first is trivial; that is, there are plenty of stories of dying Gods around. The third is a conjecture and an argument of the kind: some people do it wrong, therefore it's bad. So you're selling your car and giving up teaching psychology?

It would be nice, though to see a kind of clarification along the lines of, "The existence of other 'Queen of Heaven' ideas does not in itself prove that the Catholics are wrong about Mary.But IF they're wrong, they're REAL wrong! And We think they're wrong because of THESE reasons over here."

BTW: If logic can be owned by any created person, it ain't logic, IMHO.

2,429 posted on 05/09/2010 6:34:02 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Quix; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; ...
The problem with Scripture-only is that you are missing the primary teachings of Christ. Jesus taught orally, and so did the early Church. Paul is the first of the NT writings that we know of, only an early draft of Matthew might have preceded it.

And in spite of that, Catholics consider the Gospels to be the writings that the Bible is to be interpreted by?

Catholics sure are quick enough to quote out of the Gospels when they need to support some Catholic tradition.

2,430 posted on 05/09/2010 6:36:05 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Mad Dawg

I understand that.

2 personal problems of mine hinder my providing that.

1. I don’t really feel up to it in several ways.
2. It’s just not a very high priority, to me.
3. I have a long list of higher priorities.
4. When and if I have something compiled along those lines, will certainly ping you.

assuming the net is still up by then.


2,431 posted on 05/09/2010 6:40:37 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: metmom

Of course.

They don’t want to admit that the real title is

Roman DoubleStandard Catholic et al Vatican Institution


2,432 posted on 05/09/2010 6:42:07 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: metmom; Quix
So, seriously: The ONLY prayer you guys EVER say is the Our Father?

If not, then all this harping on "in direct disobedience to Christ’s command to pray to the Father, in the Lord’s prayer," is tendentious nonsense.

And if that's all the praying you then you are ignoring the advice to make prayers and supplications and give thanks for all men.

And the reason I pose this is as a "meta-comment" on the notion that, "so much of the teaching about Mary can be shown to be erroneous with Scripture, right out of the gospels."

The short way of saying it is that I am not going to except any alleged argument from someone who on Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays says we should only pray the Lord's Prayer, and on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays says we should do what St. Paul says, and then on Sunday talks about proving stuff from Scripture.

One thing I've learned here on FR is that Scripture is an ink-blot without an authoritative hermeneutic. And what I mean by ink-blot is that, without an authoritative hermeneutic, people find it in what they put in it.

2,433 posted on 05/09/2010 6:45:09 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: metmom
IOW, the Gospel writers DIDN'T relate the primary teachings of Jesus in their accounts? They wasted their time on less important teachings of secondary matters?

They related many of them, sure. But the primary teachings were oral, not written.

2,434 posted on 05/09/2010 6:45:30 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: metmom
And in spite of that, Catholics consider the Gospels to be the writings that the Bible is to be interpreted by? Catholics sure are quick enough to quote out of the Gospels when they need to support some Catholic tradition.

And the Gospels are the quoted Words of God (Jesus). Why should we not quote them? We worship the Triune God, not some second millennium fantasy.

2,435 posted on 05/09/2010 6:46:52 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Mad Dawg

INCLUDING

the RC’s!


2,436 posted on 05/09/2010 6:48:25 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

Take your time, amigo. Priorities count, and this is low on my list too.


2,437 posted on 05/09/2010 6:48:39 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: Quix

Negative.

Call it the teachings of Jesus the Christ as He told it to the Apostles and His disciples. As opposed to fantastic theologies derived by men in their cups or magic mushrooms or peyote or LSD, that we see littering the landscape and purporting to be Christian.


2,438 posted on 05/09/2010 6:49:08 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Quix
Definitely, That's why I talked about authoritative hermeneutic. No one comes to it without SOME hermeneutic.
2,439 posted on 05/09/2010 6:50:44 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: Mad Dawg

No. The only prayer I ever pray now that I’ve become a Christian, is TO God, modeled on the Lord’s Prayer.


2,440 posted on 05/09/2010 6:51:00 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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