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Give Your All To . . . ? . . . . [A Rel Forum Research thread--Open]
Bible, Vultus Christi, Quix's noggin ^ | 28 APR 2010; 30 APR 2010 | Jesus, Mark Kirby & Quix

Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix

GIVE IT ALL TO . . . ? . . . .

--A Research Thread--

. . .

.

7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
10 May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today the food we need,[a]
12 and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
13 And don’t let us yield to temptation,[b]
but rescue us from the evil one.[c]

--New Living Translation

7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.]

8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

9Pray, therefore, like this:

Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.
10Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven ([e]left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have [f]given up resentment against) our debtors.
13And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [g]reckless and willful sins, [h]leaving them, letting them go, and [i]giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

--Amplified

Pray with Simplicity

5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat?

6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.

7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

14-15"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God's part.

16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well.
--THE MESSAGE

Mark Kirby:

O Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Perpetual Help,
I turn with confidence to thy maternal Heart,
and I renew my total and irrevocable consecration to thee.

I am all thine, Most Holy Mary,
and all that I have is thine.
I give thee my past with its burdens.
I give thee this present moment with its anxieties and fears.
I give thee my future and all that it holds.

There is no part of my life that is not open to thee,
no place so secret, or so darkened by sin
that thy presence and thy influence
are not wholly and ardently desired there.

I want to be completely transparent with thee,
utterly simple, guileless, and childlike.
Thou knowest, O Mother,
all my preoccupations,
all my intentions,
and all those recommended to my prayer.
Take them, I beseech thee, to thy Immaculate Heart
and, as my Advocate, my all-powerful intercessor, and my Mediatrix,
present them to thy Son.
Seeing them presented by thee
and held in thy maternal Heart,
there is nothing that He will not do
to give to each intention the one response
worthy of the infinite mercy and love of His Sacred Heart.

Praying in this way, I can be at rest,
for thou art my Mother,
and all that I entrust to thee will be,
I am sure,
received, and considered, and cared for
with a Mother's love.
Amen.

.

.

.


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; exclusivity; focus; holiness; marybashing; worship
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To: Ken4TA
Interesting. How do they define themselves as Christians?

Simple, by the word itself - Followers of Christ.

Since they are missing the guidance of the Institution that Jesus labouriously created over his three years of ministry, and only have one of its created teachings and documents - the Bible - to go by, their following is like having a map, but not the translation. In the cases of the aftermath of the Restoration, or what the Reformed churches have degenerated into, their maps have not proven sufficient.

Jesus and the Apostles never taught anything about a hierarchy of leadership, and very definitely not a clergy system.

I'd suggest a second look at the Pauline letters and especially his relationships with Timothy and some of his other subordinates. The relationship of Luke to both Peter and Paul, and Mark to Peter might also be relevant.

The first heresies were failure to follow what the Apostles taught and instead take the traditions as taught by influential men who sought power over the assembly. History shows this, and it happened with the Apostle John was still living. It is also recorded in the NT for you to read. Start your search with open eyes and mind.

It is well recorded in the NT and in early Church history. Your website leaves little doubt as to which heresies you favour.

Good luck...

I'd prefer a prayer to Almighty God from a believer. I find that there is no such thing as luck.

2,401 posted on 05/09/2010 3:04:35 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: boatbums
That would be different from COPIOS (Catholics' Own Personal Interpretation of Scripture) as sorta guided by their particularly favored Magisterium and what they had for breakfast? How exactly???

The Catechism and Bible leave little or no room for interpretational error. Therefore any departure is a willful decision by the individual.

2,402 posted on 05/09/2010 3:05:57 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: RnMomof7
A catechism is a statement of faith not a line by line teaching of the meaning of every verse of scripture.. There is no such thing as a catholic commentary so when one preaches or teaches they are free to find what ever they want in the text.. YOPIOS is what every priest and teacher does in the RC...

Fascinating statement. The Church teaches, as it has always taught, in those statements of faith and belief. There is no need of a line by line teaching because the Faith is a composition of the whole Bible. A line here goes with a paragraph there goes with an entire chapter over there. This again is nonCatholic teaching and very different than the first 1500 years of Christianity. The Faith comes first, then the Bible.

I heard some terrible hermeneutics in my days as a catholic .

And so have I. I cringe sometimes.

2,403 posted on 05/09/2010 3:11:12 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: metmom

INDEED.


2,404 posted on 05/09/2010 3:14:12 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: boatbums
This coming from a person, who like Augustine, was it, would not believe the "gospels" if the authority of the Catholic Church had not moved him to? I'm not all that convinced too many Catholics believe the Bible is inspired by God at all. "Mere" men? Really???

No matter how holy a man is, he is a mere man. Christ is God. Men are men. God inspired the Bible, according to the Bible and to Church teachings. I don't know which Catholics you are speaking of.

2,405 posted on 05/09/2010 3:18:50 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: count-your-change
“To rid Spain of the Muslims.”

And Jews, who were given the choice convert to Catholicism or die. Ferdinand and Isabella were quite the couple. Ferdi and Izzy just had to have their very own inquisition. But the medieval inquisition had begun a couple of hundred years earlier in France and Germany, Italy.

The Spanish Inquisition was instituted to make Spain Catholic again after 600 years of rule by Islam. There were specific inquisitions earlier, certainly, but not the full Inquisition of Spain. The Jews were considered by all Christians to be lesser than Christians and in need of conversion. Martin Luther was ruthless about them; I don't believe that any of the major Reformers were less than anti Semite.

Yes, most of us want to be virtuous but at what cost?

I'm not sure of the question here.

2,406 posted on 05/09/2010 3:23:36 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Forest Keeper
So as you can see, the key phrase is "friendly cooperation with the Convention and sympathetic with its purposes and work". Off hand, I'm not aware of any church ever being thrown out over this but it could have happened. I take it to mean that if a church is right there on the main stuff and close enough on the secondary stuff (Arminians and Calvinists ARE welcome) then the church can be in. There is not any sort of litmus test on a church by church basis for agreeing to ALL of the resolutions that come out of the Conventions. It's basically the overall "friendly cooperation".

Therefore I cannot claim that all SBC churches agree on every issue on which the SBC gives a position, but I can say that there is very substantial agreement on the major issues, including social issues like homosexuality, abortion, women clergy, etc.

I see. So it's not quite as definite or binding as the Catechism. In the instance where a female pastor would be hired, what would the SBC do?

2,407 posted on 05/09/2010 3:28:57 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Outership
LOL you tell me. How far away from Earth are you from?

I'm not. I don't have a mothership, outership, or space ship. The question remains: where does your planet of Vaticania hang out?

2,408 posted on 05/09/2010 3:30:46 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: RnMomof7
I have read catholics theologians that come up with new interpretations that no one else has ever seen and that are purely from their own imagination..

Are you referring to Hans Kung et al?

The charge by Catholics that every protestant is his own pope rings hollow when the church has never taken time to teach the scriptures in context in an OFFICIAL catholic commentary ...so every bible study teacher , every theologian , every priest on Sundays is in fact giving his personal reading ...because your church knows if they ever did a contextual commentary it would show the faulty doctrine for what it is

Negative. Christianity teaches that Jesus is the pinnacle; therefore the Gospels are the core of Scripture, with the NT read through the Gospels and the OT through the New. Just as it is with the teachings of Jesus - the Faith - being the core and the Scriptures interpreted through the Faith and not vice versa. The Faith came long before any NT Scriptures were written, and in fact, the Scriptures were chosen to support the Faith, not vice versa. That is why Protestant understanding is often so different from traditional Christianity. The development of the myraid Protestant faiths came about in an entirely different process.

2,409 posted on 05/09/2010 3:35:02 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
"Simple, by the word itself - Followers of Christ."

Since they are missing the guidance of the Institution that Jesus labouriously created over his three years of ministry, and only have one of its created teachings and documents - the Bible - to go by, their following is like having a map, but not the translation. In the cases of the aftermath of the Restoration, or what the Reformed churches have degenerated into, their maps have not proven sufficient.

We are only missing the so-called "traditions" the RCC so strenuously push from various men and movements of the times. And, the Bible is "translated" into our English so that we can understand it. Not being a member of the "Reformed churches" that you refer to, we stick to what is revealed by God through the writings of Christ's inspired writers of the Bible. The assembly I affiliate with follows the lead of the Apostles as they taught everything that Jesus told them to. We do not add nor subtract from what is written, period.

I'd suggest a second look at the Pauline letters and especially his relationships with Timothy and some of his other subordinates. The relationship of Luke to both Peter and Paul, and Mark to Peter might also be relevant.

Thanks for the suggestion. That's exactly what we did, and we don't only read it two times, but as often as we are led by the spirit to do.

It is well recorded in the NT and in early Church history. Your website leaves little doubt as to which heresies you favour.

And, pray tell, just what are those "heresies" you think we favour? I'd like to know what they are!

Good luck - again!

2,410 posted on 05/09/2010 3:46:46 PM PDT by Ken4TA (The truth hurts those who don't like truth!)
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To: Quix
I picked up a used booklet at the used book table . . . on the QUEEN OF HEAVEN—all manifestations. The Roman Catholic et al variety was only a rather small part of the booklet.

I’m convinced it’s a bigger spiritual warfare issue than I’d ever realized before.

Absolutely! Powers and Principalities... NO doubt about it. They are the same, all the way down through history.

It is too bad that folks won't look honestly at their beginnings - The Mystery Religion, founded by Nimrod in Babylon...

2,411 posted on 05/09/2010 3:59:02 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: roamer_1

INDEED.

THX THX.


2,412 posted on 05/09/2010 3:59:46 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


2,413 posted on 05/09/2010 4:30:42 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Ken4TA
It has to be May 7, 2010, because it isn't July 5, 2010 yet!

You know that, and I know that, but do we know the person who originated the information knows that?

And people are always saying that I make assumptions!

2,414 posted on 05/09/2010 4:50:04 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: MarkBsnr
From last to first,

Concerning punishment of Catholics who violate the teaching on abortion,
Would any bishop petition the Vatican to have a powerful Catholic politician excommunicated?
Especially one that could retaliate in some way? Or would a popular Catholic priest be excommunicated for making abortions easier to get and increasing the number performed by making the practice legal?
We both know from experience the answer to these questions. To actually follow through and excommunicate such persons might impose a cost the Catholic church is not willing to bear.

“The Jews were considered by all Christians to be lesser than Christians and in need of conversion.”

My mother shot down this kind of logic when I was about six years old by saying she didn't care what others did, I was not to set fire to the neighbor's chicken coop and then she thrashed me soundly. I wasn't any worse than the other kids so why should I get a beating? And some kids really were hoodlums unlike myself.

Murdering Jews because they would not accept Catholicism or any other religion is not the act of Christians.

Balancing virtue against the cost, pragmatism wins outs out everytime somehow.

2,415 posted on 05/09/2010 4:59:42 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Mad Dawg
You know that, and I know that, but do we know the person who originated the information knows that?

Hmmm...maybe we should start a thread on this and gather a variety of people to speculate whether the one who wrote "7/5/2010" was in the Military, Fed Government, Post office, etc., or that the one who wrote it didn't know what he was doing. I didn't use any assumption, just logic; although using philosophy could be fun in an odd sort of way!

Belonging to a military organization, I enter dates like that on all the reports I submit - it's standard is that the day comes first, the month second and year last. Although the form we use is DDMMYYYY - 07/05/2010 which varies a little from the one posted.

2,416 posted on 05/09/2010 5:33:27 PM PDT by Ken4TA (The truth hurts those who don't like truth!)
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To: Mad Dawg; Quix
But if, as some have proposed, we see purgatory as boot camp (you're in the army already, now we're making you a good soldier) for heaven or as the outskirts of the heavenly city (you're IN the city, you're just not downtown yet) then maybe it's clearer that those in purgatory are redeemed. It's really a special case of Quix's saying we continue to learn in heaven. It's a happy place.

Applause. Your post explains Purgatory better than anything that I have been able to compose. Perhaps friend Quix may be closer to us than we all think.

2,417 posted on 05/09/2010 5:46:53 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: roamer_1; Quix
I just had an alleged thought.

You guys and we agree that there are impostors, pretenders, as it were, to the title "Queen of Heaven."

The difference,of course, is that you all think that because there are pretenders to that title, there can be no 'real' Queen of Heaven.

There have been pretenders to the title "Son of God." That does by no means prove that there is no real Son of God.

But when we speak of the Queen of Heaven, you all pretend that we are blurring her with Astarte and Parvati and who knows what all.

Just as I do not find my faith in Jesus as the only-begotten Son of God weakened by the claims of Krishna or Hercules, so my confidence that the Mother of the King is rightly given the courtesy of Queen is not shaken however long your list of pretenders might be.

2,418 posted on 05/09/2010 5:49:24 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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To: Mad Dawg
I missed my nap today. Mother's Day (although my mother left us on July 4, 1991 after waiting for my son to be born) is a joy for me. We attended a beautiful Mass, with the First Communion children dressed like they used to be 50 years ago. We went for a walk with the family in Wildcat Den to the Devil's Punch Bowl and had a picnic with fried chicken and really bad plastic containers of salads and stuff. Then we attended a 40th wedding anniversary of a pillar of our church.

Then we came home and lounged and ate supper and watched America's Funniest Home Videos. I wound the clocks. We are winding down to bedtime. The Lord God Almighty is better to me than I could ever hope of deserving. Or even imagine...

2,419 posted on 05/09/2010 5:54:24 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Ken4TA
It's the European way as well. Being half Limey and 1/4 Kraut (ooh cabbage pickled in lime juice -- could be good! a little carroway seed. I see some possibilities here) I grew up with many letters with the European day/month/year style. I am not unfamiliar with it.

As I tell my wife often, it never hurts to check.

2,420 posted on 05/09/2010 5:56:40 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (O Maria, sine labe concepta, ora pro nobis qui ad te confugimus.)
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