Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix
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7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, --New Living Translation 7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.] 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9Pray, therefore, like this: 15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses. --Amplified Pray with Simplicity 5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat? 6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace. 7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this: 16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well. |
Mark Kirby: O Mother of Good Counsel, I am all thine, Most Holy Mary, There is no part of my life that is not open to thee, I want to be completely transparent with thee, Praying in this way, I can be at rest, |
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“HEAVEN, HELL AND PURGATORY Pope John Paul II
In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him.
“Incorporeal things are not in place after a manner known and familiar to us, in which way we say that bodies are properly in place; but they are in place after a manner befitting spiritual substances, a manner that cannot be fully manifest to us.” [St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Supplement, Q69, a1, reply 1]
Purgatory is not a place but a condition of existence
4. In the New Testament Christ is presented as the intercessor who assumes the functions of high priest on the day of expiation (cf. Heb 5: 7; 7: 25). But in him the priesthood is presented in a new and definitive form. He enters the heavenly shrine once and for all, to intercede with God on our behalf (cf. Heb 9: 23-26, especially, v. 24). He is both priest and “victim of expiation” for the sins of the whole world (cf. 1 Jn 2: 2).
Jesus, as the great intercessor who atones for us, will fully reveal himself at the end of our life when he will express himself with the offer of mercy, but also with the inevitable judgement for those who refuse the Father's love and forgiveness.
This offer of mercy does not exclude the duty to present ourselves to God, pure and whole, rich in that love which Paul calls a “[bond] of perfect harmony” (Col 3: 14).
5. In following the Gospel exhortation to be perfect like the heavenly Father (cf. Mt 5: 48) during our earthly life, we are called to grow in love, to be sound and flawless before God the Father “at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints” (1 Thes 3: 12f.). Moreover, we are invited to “cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit” (2 Cor 7: 1; cf. 1 Jn 3: 3), because the encounter with God requires absolute purity.
Every trace of attachment to evil must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected. Purification must be complete, and indeed this is precisely what is meant by the Church's teaching on purgatory. The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ who removes from them the remnants of imperfection (cf. Ecumenical Council of Florence, Decretum pro Graecis: DS 1304; Ecumenical Council of Trent, Decretum de iustificatione: DS 1580; Decretum de purgatorio: DS 1820).
It is necessary to explain that the state of purification is not a prolungation of the earthly condition, almost as if after death one were given another possibility to change one’s destiny. The Church's teaching in this regard is unequivocal and was reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council which teaches: “Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed (cf. Heb 9: 27), we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth’ (Mt 22: 13 and 25: 30)” (Lumen gentium, n. 48).
6. One last important aspect which the Church's tradition has always pointed out should be reproposed today: the dimension of “communio”. Those, in fact, who find themselves in the state of purification are united both with the blessed who already enjoy the fullness of eternal life, and with us on this earth on our way towards the Father's house (cf. CCC, n. 1032).
Just as in their earthly life believers are united in the one Mystical Body, so after death those who live in a state of purification experience the same ecclesial solidarity which works through prayer, prayers for suffrage and love for their other brothers and sisters in the faith. Purification is lived in the essential bond created between those who live in this world and those who enjoy eternal beatitude.”
I think the following just means there's no basis in Scripture for the doctrine of purgatory. If Christ died for our sins, what purpose does purgatory serve?
“2. In Sacred Scripture, we can grasp certain elements that help us to understand the meaning of this doctrine, even if it is not formally described.”
No thanks.
Not my reality.
HEAVEN IS A PLACE.
I’m more convinced of that, than ever.
Yep. and in what way do they support the notion of a purgatory?
This is just crazy.
Yep, it sure is crazy the way you are twisting things around.
In the same way that the gross phenomena of nature support Newton’s Laws.
I have NEVER seen an object change direction and speed in direct proportion to the force exerted on it. I have never seen a moving object remain in motion at the same speed and direction for very long. When we constructed a mass balance at college to see if we could confirm the third law, we got approximate confirmation, but it was only approximate.
Yet Newton explains what I see better than anybody else. I have to look really closely to see that Einstein is more correct, but even there, I never get FULL confirmation.
Similarly, what I see in Scripture is best explained by what the Catholic Church teaches, AND it does not frustrate reason. And when I add my experience and observations of grace in people’s lives, the adequacy and elegance of the Catholic account impresses me even more.
I think I understand your perspective.
It’s not mine.
I wish the following were further from my perspective, too.
posted on 7/5/2010 @ 11:33
The Plan for the United States of America
Good afternoon to all who will listen, I feel obligated to inform you of something.
As I am sure you know, the US Economy is about to crash very soon. This event will have catastrophic effects on the American People. There will be many deaths due to what is going to happen. I will, to the best of my knowledge, give you the Timeline of events as I see it, some of these things you know are going to happen, others you might not know about. If you leave the United States within the next Week or so, you will be spare this fate. If you do leave, do not go to Canada, it is not safe. Go to either South America or Africa. Move near the Equator Everywhere else will eventually succumb to the events that are about to take place. You thought ‘chemtrails’, ‘population control’, ‘nwo’, ‘Planet X’ and ‘illuminati’ were the most of your troubles, you are sadly mistaken. I am assuming most of ATS posters are American, so this WILL affect you. Hoarding food, Gold, Silver, Guns act. These will not save you from this fate. I write these events to save those with eyes to see, ears to hear, and a heart to listen so please do not bother with petty comments. Thank you and here is The Plan for the United States of America. It will unfold in time.
1.) US Economy Crashes. Dollar becomes worthless.
2.) Americans panic. Looting, murder, stealing, riots happen.
3.) Martial Law is declared. Military steps in, Borders close, all of America stops. Your ‘freedom’ is now null and void. All Guns are banned and Gold is banned (This may happen immediately after #1.)
4.) Americans are put into camps (not concentration camps.) to maintain order.
5.) Some succumb to Starvation*, other people also will be murdering themselves.
6.) The Chinese and Russians cut off ‘Power Grid’ to the United States of America.
7.) The Chinese Invade the USA, maybe the Russians also.
8.) Because nobody will be armed except for the ‘Peace Keepers’ the USA will fall.
9.) All of America is destroyed and split up between the nations who conquer it and most Americans are killed.
10.) The United States of America ends as we know it.
Now as far as I know, this is the ‘plan’. I hope it does not happen, but I am sure it will. If you can leave the US within one week I suggest you get out. I have given instructions on where to go earlier. The US Economy should collapse within one month which will set these events into motion. Also expect some natural disasters to happen also.
This is a grave time for the USA. Leave if you can and be spared this fate.
*There is a food shortage in the US that has not been broadcast in the Major Media. Some sites have covered this. When the Dollar collapses the price of everything will rise due to Hyperinflation. This will make most of the American People panic and thus Martial Law will be initiated, and then comes in China’s takeover.
If you plan on staying in America or can’t leave, good luck. If you do decide to leave before Martial Law is activated, do so within the next few days-week. When Martial Law is active, the US Borders will close and you will be stuck. Plane tickets only cost about $1000-$2000. If you are short on money, sell whatever you own and buy a plane ticket out, even if it’s your Car. Which do you value more, the Car or your life? If you don’t have a Passport, try to get one rushed to you immediately by googling ‘fast passport’. Also, if you get overseas before the US Economic Collapse, change currency immediately as the Dollar will be worthless.
I hope some good was done here.
Good luck.
[edit on 7-5-2010 by Illuminator13]
from
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread569077/pg1
One of the more disturbing things about the above is the significant number of prophetic sources in the last 20 years that have said more or less the same things were going to happen.
Must be well over a dozen or two dozen, at this point.
FWIW
I guess I just trust God's word more than the Pope's but just me.
Well, I'll give you this: When you make up your mind about how philosophers just twist stuff, you don't quit.
(The truth hurts those who don't like truth!)
Here's a truth: Aquinas doesn't think there's a 'self' which 'has' a 'soul'. A soul is not a thing to be had because a "substantial form" is not a thing.
I don't think there's a way to criticize a philosophical theologian like Aquinas if one doesn't go deeply into the philosophy.
Not everybody needs to do that, but those who don't have as much business judging Aquinas as I have judging NASCAR drivers -- which is to say, none.
But, just as you have misconstrued what I said and initiated the attack a little before you could say with precision what my position was, so also their arguments and, especially, their allegations about Catholic faith, thought, and practice proved to be unreliable.
When their behavior also started going off the rails, my inclination to jump ship was even stronger. And when the Episcopal Church showed itself to be utterly incoherent, I swam the Tiber. And subsequent ill-informed attacks by non-Catholics cement my allegiance.
Consequently:
but since your’e taught purgatory REALLY, REALLY exists, well, then, lack of Scriptural evidence will never matter.just shows an eagerness to reason beyond one's data.
May I conclude,though, that you agree with Aristotle that an object in motion tends to slow down (since that's what we see) and that you disagree with Newton and Einstein because, while they explain observations, one never actually observes what they say?
When YOU guys are confronted with an apparent contradiction in Scripture, you have to adopt some kind of rational hermeneutical principles to fight your way through the thicket. Your principles do not in arise in a vacuum. You do not come to the Bible (or rarely come to it) without a hermeneutic provided by somebody else.
Even the JW's had an Adventist background, and look at the shipwreck their pretense of coming to the Bible without any other influences is!
And, leaving aside the witness of Maccabees, there are those niggling little verses, which non-Catholics generally blow off or acknowledge with a shrug. Our account has room for them. So I think we're pretty Scriptural, FAR more Scriptural than our antagonists say. More coherent too. (Though I personally claim little coherence.)
SUNDAY NAP!
Okay, more like I'm going to the sofa. They don't make nap mats for guys in their 60's.
See y'all later.
Yeah . . .
wellllllllllllllll . . .
there’s no accounting for
taste
or
theology . . .
obviously.
A case in point, study A) above.
LOL.
May 7th.
good on ya.
sweet dreams.
“.May I conclude,though, that you agree with Aristotle that an object in motion tends to slow down (since that's what we see) and that you disagree with Newton and Einstein because, while they explain observations, one never actually observes what they say?
Insofar as JW’s are concerned, I would comment that starting out with a clean slate, without being beholden to past dogmas and creedos, might be a definite advantage in letting the Scriptures speak for themselves.
“Even the JW’s had an Adventist background, and look at the shipwreck their pretense of coming to the Bible without any other influences is!”
‘Misconstrued’ your position? Yours is the position of the Catholic church is it not? And to state where that position conflicts with Scripture is not an attack. It may offend but still....
“But, just as you have misconstrued what I said and initiated the attack a little before you could say with precision what my position was, so also their arguments and, especially, their allegations about Catholic faith, thought, and practice proved to be unreliable.”
No, I didn't miss that you are a convert. Baptized in the Catholic church? Who taught you the Catechism if your teachers were somewhat anti-Catholic?
“Maybe you missed that I am a convert to Catholicism. I was not taught Catholic doctrine by anybody like a parent or a cleric. I did my own studying. My teachers, in fact, were rather anti-Catholic”.
Witness of the Maccabees? What witness? What ‘niggling little verses’ might those be?
“And, leaving aside the witness of Maccabees, there are those niggling little verses, which non-Catholics generally blow off or acknowledge with a shrug. Our account has room for them. So I think we're pretty Scriptural, FAR more Scriptural than our antagonists say. More coherent too. (Though I personally claim little coherence.)”
I was baptized by the Episcopal Church. I taught myself the catechism. The priest who received me into full communion was satisfied with my knowledge of Catholic stuff.
Witness of the Maccabees? What witness? What ‘niggling little verses’ might those be?
I understood you to say you had checked the sources in the CCC's section on Purgatory. They are mentioned there. Some of them are mentioned in the stuff of J2P2's that you quoted.
I'd get 'em myself but I am in a rush.
Here's the linky again.
2 Maccabbes isn't part of the Scriptures and what it offers is contrary to God's inspired word at 1 John 4:10,
“Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
Propitiation as in atonement, expiatory. Christ was our expiatory sacrifice and no other can be made.
Maccabees has no witness to offer unless it is a false one.
Hmmm...I don't recall ever claiming "philosophers just twist stuff", however I do recall that some people use philosophy to twist stuff. Do you see the difference?
My tag line: "The truth hurts those who don't like truth!"
Here's a truth: Aquinas doesn't think there's a 'self' which 'has' a 'soul'. A soul is not a thing to be had because a "substantial form" is not a thing.
Hmmm...Yes, that little summary may be true. But what he said - who's to say that's a TRUTH? You? I've done a lot of study on the matter of the term "soul" and published it, and it's never been successfully rebuked - you may have read it, I don't know if you have, but TruthDefender said he told you about it. Actually, Aquinas is not a person I turn to for instruction on the word "soul"; I'd rather seek what God has revealed about that word and how He inspired it to be applied.
I don't think there's a way to criticize a philosophical theologian like Aquinas if one doesn't go deeply into the philosophy.
In other words, he can be criticized? And one would have to go "deeply" into what he says? Why? Isn't what he said plain enough if one has to dig deeply into the subject? Thankfully, God's word is fairly easy to understand, provided that one stays away from analizing it with philosophy. Anyway, nothing Aquinas says has any influence on me over against what God has revealed through His inspired writers in the Bible.
Not everybody needs to do that, but those who don't have as much business judging Aquinas as I have judging NASCAR drivers -- which is to say, none.
I agree - that's why I'll leave it to others who think it's their business. I have absolutely no interest in judging Aquinas (I leave that to God) as I have no interest in what he happens to say on any subject.
My education in philosophy while in College just happened to be taken because it was a prerequist to other courses I wanted to take. I did enjoy it, but never felt the need to pursue using it in arguments.
That's an easy one - if one thinks a little bit :-)
It has to be May 7, 2010, because it isn't July 5, 2010 yet!
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