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Give Your All To . . . ? . . . . [A Rel Forum Research thread--Open]
Bible, Vultus Christi, Quix's noggin ^ | 28 APR 2010; 30 APR 2010 | Jesus, Mark Kirby & Quix

Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix

GIVE IT ALL TO . . . ? . . . .

--A Research Thread--

. . .

.

7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
10 May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today the food we need,[a]
12 and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
13 And don’t let us yield to temptation,[b]
but rescue us from the evil one.[c]

--New Living Translation

7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.]

8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

9Pray, therefore, like this:

Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.
10Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven ([e]left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have [f]given up resentment against) our debtors.
13And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [g]reckless and willful sins, [h]leaving them, letting them go, and [i]giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

--Amplified

Pray with Simplicity

5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat?

6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.

7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

14-15"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God's part.

16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well.
--THE MESSAGE

Mark Kirby:

O Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Perpetual Help,
I turn with confidence to thy maternal Heart,
and I renew my total and irrevocable consecration to thee.

I am all thine, Most Holy Mary,
and all that I have is thine.
I give thee my past with its burdens.
I give thee this present moment with its anxieties and fears.
I give thee my future and all that it holds.

There is no part of my life that is not open to thee,
no place so secret, or so darkened by sin
that thy presence and thy influence
are not wholly and ardently desired there.

I want to be completely transparent with thee,
utterly simple, guileless, and childlike.
Thou knowest, O Mother,
all my preoccupations,
all my intentions,
and all those recommended to my prayer.
Take them, I beseech thee, to thy Immaculate Heart
and, as my Advocate, my all-powerful intercessor, and my Mediatrix,
present them to thy Son.
Seeing them presented by thee
and held in thy maternal Heart,
there is nothing that He will not do
to give to each intention the one response
worthy of the infinite mercy and love of His Sacred Heart.

Praying in this way, I can be at rest,
for thou art my Mother,
and all that I entrust to thee will be,
I am sure,
received, and considered, and cared for
with a Mother's love.
Amen.

.

.

.


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; exclusivity; focus; holiness; marybashing; worship
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To: metmom

True. Peter made no decision about the use of these keys but from the account and language used it’s clear he was acting upon the decision already made in heaven.

Both the binding and loosing had already been decided upon.


1,961 posted on 05/05/2010 6:47:21 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

What’s your take on the word “apostle”?


1,962 posted on 05/05/2010 6:55:20 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Quia quem meruisti* portare, Alleluia // Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: Mad Dawg; 1000 silverlings; metmom; betty boop
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; - Titus 1:2

Seems to me that when we are discussing the point that God cannot lie, we ought to remember that when He says a thing it is. It is because He says it.

For the word of the LORD [is] right; and all his works [are done] in truth. He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD. By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spake, and it was [done]; he commanded, and it stood fast. – Psalms 33:4-9

After all, He created “all that there is” ex nihilo.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20

And again,

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4

At the root there is nothing of which anything can be made but His will, either His creative will or His permissive will.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20

And it is all for cause - the "final cause" being the new heaven and new earth wherein God will have gathered all of His adopted children and live with them forevermore (Revelation 21-22)

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. - Romans 8:28

God’s Name is I AM and Alpha and Omega.


1,963 posted on 05/05/2010 6:59:46 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: count-your-change; Quix; boatbums; RnMomof7; editor-surveyor; wmfights; Iscool; 1000 silverlings; ..

There is nothing in the NT that refers back to that incident, of Jesus allegedly establishing the papacy as Catholics like to interpret that verse to mean.

Nothing was said about it in the book of Acts, nor did Peter himself ever refer to it in any of his writings. He left no instructions about an office that he allegedly had, nor did he leave any instructions on how to pick his successor, which didn’t happen until 300 years later anyway.

And we can all see what kind of corruption of ideas can happen after 300 years. All we have to do is look at how the Constitution has been “reinterpreted” since it was written; people adding all kinds of meanings that the authors did not intend.

The Bible needs to be read and interpreted in context and does not contradict itself, and taking ONE verse and building a whole doctrine out of it with nothing to support it even vaguely, is foolhardy.

The only person able to keep someone out of heaven is the person himself. No other person has the power to do that to another. All giving someone that power to do so would do is invite abuse, as we have clearly seen from history happened.


1,964 posted on 05/05/2010 7:09:14 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Hebrews 6:18
“God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.”

Titus 1:2
“...a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,...”

Nor do these verses contradict Psalm 115:3 “Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him.”

Nor it them. The Bible does not contradict itself. Anyone who thinks that it does is not interpreting the verse correctly.


1,965 posted on 05/05/2010 7:17:44 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
Nor it them. The Bible does not contradict itself. Anyone who thinks that it does is not interpreting the verse correctly.

Indeed. Thank you so very much for those beautiful Scriptures, dear sister in Christ, and thank you for your insights!

"All that there is" was created by God for His pleasure:

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. - Revelation 4:11

God's Name is Alpha and Omega.

1,966 posted on 05/05/2010 7:21:34 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Excellent!

One of the coolest things to do is to track all the DBR (and ‘MR) words in the OT and the logos words (including logizomai)in the NT.

From the beginning, how does God create? Through the WORD.

Wayomer ‘’, YeHi Or. (from memory and I don’t usually try to transcribe Hebrew) And God SAID Let light be.

So in the Nicene creed the Son is He, by/through whom all things were made.

And then reflect on God ‘reckoning’(logizomai) the redeemed as righteous — it’s like He (pardon my coarse and vigorous imagery) slaps some Jesus up ‘side the redeemed. He ‘Words’ them righteous.

And God don’t speak no fiction, legal, forensic, or otherwise.


1,967 posted on 05/05/2010 7:26:22 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Quia quem meruisti* portare, Alleluia // Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: Mad Dawg
What beautiful insights, dear brother in Christ! Thank you!!!

And then reflect on God ‘reckoning’(logizomai) the redeemed as righteous — it’s like He (pardon my coarse and vigorous imagery) slaps some Jesus up ‘side the redeemed. He ‘Words’ them righteous.

So very true.

1,968 posted on 05/05/2010 7:32:42 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: metmom; johngrace; Quix; stfassisi; Judith Anne; markomalley
Catholics believe Scripture to be the inspired Word of God, written by the Holy Spirit through the hands of men. They are obviously a Biblical religion but they also believe the Church was entrusted to Peter, "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt 16: 13-19), and Biblical interpretation was entrusted to the Pope also. You no doubt believe parts of Luther's "Solo Scriptura, Faith Alone" theology and parts of Calvin's extreme predestination (which contradict each other) philosophy, but probably not all of it. Even Lutherans and "Reformed" don't buy much of it anymore. In effect, you are your own pope, sharing some beliefs with other Protestants (and unwittingly even with Catholics!) but not all. Like a holocaust denier, you deny the "holiness" of Catholic saints—who gave not money but their lives, "There is no greater love than this ..." (John 15:13) to others for Christ, "Whatsoever you did to the least of my brothers, that you did for me" (Matt 25: 31-46).

To deny Catholicism is to deny Scripture, deny history, deny Christ; and in doing so make the Bible into a book that ultimately only you can interpret INFALLIBLY…
1,969 posted on 05/05/2010 7:33:37 AM PDT by fightingirishthomas (O, Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee ...)
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To: MarkBsnr
Interesting , Pauls writings are very clear..IMHO Peter disagreed with you. But heretics through the millennia do agree with you.

1Cr 2:14 — But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

1,970 posted on 05/05/2010 7:41:10 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Alamo-Girl; Quix

Other examples of people bowing down to men or other acts of attributing to men characteristics that belong to God. Kind of sets a precedent, doesn’t it?

Honoring or respecting someone or their position is one thing. As a matter of fact, we are commanded to respect each other. Responding to them in the manner in which you respond to God is another.

Acts 12:21- 23 On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.” Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.

Acts 14: 11When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” 12Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. 13The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15”Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them. 16In the past, he let all nations go their own way. 17Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.” 18Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.


1,971 posted on 05/05/2010 7:44:06 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: fightingirishthomas

Love your tag line!


1,972 posted on 05/05/2010 7:45:08 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Quia quem meruisti* portare, Alleluia // Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: wagglebee
Got it, ALL translations of Scripture have Jesus Christ giving Peter the keys to Heaven and, surprise, surprise, Protestants have figured out a way to say that this wasn't all that significant.

Correction He was given the Keys to the KINGDOM not heaven

Christ gave the keys to PETER not to the RCC.. There is no scripture that implies that the keys are transferable ..

Keys are only good for one thing..to open something that has been locked.

The Keys were given to Peter after Peter had made a profession of faith ...That is what the keys opened .

Peter opened the profession of faith to the Jews on Pentecost and to the gentiles when he was sent to Cornelius . the Keys were no longer needed because Peter left the door wide open

1,973 posted on 05/05/2010 7:47:52 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

How do you construe/interpret these verses?

[Mad Dawg translation] John 20:

21: He[Jesus] said to them [again], “Peace be with you. As the father sent me so I send you.”

{This at least gives room for the concept that the ‘sent-ness’ can be passed on, or is transferable. Jesus didn’t add “except as hereinafter provided.”}

22: And having said this he breathed on them and said “Accept the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of anyone they are forgiven; if you retain [those of] any, they are retained.”


1,974 posted on 05/05/2010 8:06:00 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Quia quem meruisti* portare, Alleluia // Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: fightingirishthomas
They are obviously a Biblical religion but they also believe the Church was entrusted to Peter, "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt 16: 13-19), and Biblical interpretation was entrusted to the Pope also.

There is no precedent for the papacy and no instructions office anywhere in the NT. The first popes did not show up until after 300 AD, way too long after to even justify saying that the office was handed down from Peter. Where'd those 300 some years ago? Just vanish into the abyss?

In effect, you are your own pope, sharing some beliefs with other Protestants (and unwittingly even with Catholics!) but not all.

You are assuming a lot about what I think and believe. I do not unwittingly share beliefs with Catholics. I'm well aware that there are many areas where Protestantism and Catholicism agree, so that assertion is false.

Like a holocaust denier, you deny the "holiness" of Catholic saints—who gave not money but their lives, "There is no greater love than this ..." (John 15:13) to others for Christ, "Whatsoever you did to the least of my brothers, that you did for me" (Matt 25: 31-46).

I don't care what denomination some one is and how much they gave and what they gave. The saints are believers in Christ no matter where they are and what church they choose to affiliate themselves with. All churches have believers and unbelievers in them and Catholics have no corner on the spirituality and holiness market.

To deny Catholicism is to deny Scripture, deny history, deny Christ; and in doing so make the Bible into a book that ultimately only you can interpret INFALLIBLY…

Hardly. To deny Catholicism is to deny the papacy, prayer to Mary, salvation based on works, all of which is unbiblical. And the history of the Catholic Church is nothing to brag about. Why any Catholic wants to go there is beyond me. I don't need the writings of Luther or Calvin to be able to read and understand Scripture. It's written plain enough. And I never claimed that anyone can interpret the Bible infallibly. Another unfounded assumption.

Do a word study in the Greek on rock. Jesus is using a play on words. Petra means a large rock. Petros means a piece of large rock. It's also not grammatically correct to use the term *this* to mean a person. If Christ had really intended that Peter be the rock on which Christ's church be built then He would have said "On you I will build my church" but He didn't.

Peter's own writings never refer to that incident. Peter said that the church, which is Christ's church not Peter's church, was build on Christ.

I Peter 2:4-7 4As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

1,975 posted on 05/05/2010 8:06:44 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: fightingirishthomas
In effect, you are your own pope

You Catholics just don't get it...There is no pope...There is no human vicar of Christ...

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Vicar of Christ that Jesus sent is the Holy Spirit...

The Apostle Peter faded into obscurity as the church began to blossom under the teaching of the Apostle Paul...

Had there ever been an actual pope, it would have been Paul...But Paul rightly considered himself a servant of the churches, not the leader...The only leader is Jesus Christ...

Yours is a false Christianity...An anti-Christianity, made by fallible men...

1,976 posted on 05/05/2010 8:09:57 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool

WELL PUT.

THX.


1,977 posted on 05/05/2010 8:13:54 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Alamo-Girl

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

THX.


1,978 posted on 05/05/2010 8:15:37 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: metmom

ABSOLUTELY INDEED:

= =

There is nothing in the NT that refers back to that incident, of Jesus allegedly establishing the papacy as Catholics like to interpret that verse to mean.

Nothing was said about it in the book of Acts, nor did Peter himself ever refer to it in any of his writings. He left no instructions about an office that he allegedly had, nor did he leave any instructions on how to pick his successor, which didn’t happen until 300 years later anyway.

And we can all see what kind of corruption of ideas can happen after 300 years. All we have to do is look at how the Constitution has been “reinterpreted” since it was written; people adding all kinds of meanings that the authors did not intend.

The Bible needs to be read and interpreted in context and does not contradict itself, and taking ONE verse and building a whole doctrine out of it with nothing to support it even vaguely, is foolhardy.

The only person able to keep someone out of heaven is the person himself. No other person has the power to do that to another. All giving someone that power to do so would do is invite abuse, as we have clearly seen from history happened.

= =

Maybe a lot of the RC fierceness arises because of the basic shallowness of the foundations of the edifice.


1,979 posted on 05/05/2010 8:17:12 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Mad Dawg; Alamo-Girl

DBR & MR words?

Doesn’t sound like Greek but feels like it. Or I’m not awake yet.


1,980 posted on 05/05/2010 8:18:35 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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