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Give Your All To . . . ? . . . . [A Rel Forum Research thread--Open]
Bible, Vultus Christi, Quix's noggin ^ | 28 APR 2010; 30 APR 2010 | Jesus, Mark Kirby & Quix

Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix

GIVE IT ALL TO . . . ? . . . .

--A Research Thread--

. . .

.

7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
10 May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today the food we need,[a]
12 and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
13 And don’t let us yield to temptation,[b]
but rescue us from the evil one.[c]

--New Living Translation

7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.]

8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

9Pray, therefore, like this:

Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.
10Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven ([e]left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have [f]given up resentment against) our debtors.
13And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [g]reckless and willful sins, [h]leaving them, letting them go, and [i]giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

--Amplified

Pray with Simplicity

5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat?

6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.

7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

14-15"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God's part.

16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well.
--THE MESSAGE

Mark Kirby:

O Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Perpetual Help,
I turn with confidence to thy maternal Heart,
and I renew my total and irrevocable consecration to thee.

I am all thine, Most Holy Mary,
and all that I have is thine.
I give thee my past with its burdens.
I give thee this present moment with its anxieties and fears.
I give thee my future and all that it holds.

There is no part of my life that is not open to thee,
no place so secret, or so darkened by sin
that thy presence and thy influence
are not wholly and ardently desired there.

I want to be completely transparent with thee,
utterly simple, guileless, and childlike.
Thou knowest, O Mother,
all my preoccupations,
all my intentions,
and all those recommended to my prayer.
Take them, I beseech thee, to thy Immaculate Heart
and, as my Advocate, my all-powerful intercessor, and my Mediatrix,
present them to thy Son.
Seeing them presented by thee
and held in thy maternal Heart,
there is nothing that He will not do
to give to each intention the one response
worthy of the infinite mercy and love of His Sacred Heart.

Praying in this way, I can be at rest,
for thou art my Mother,
and all that I entrust to thee will be,
I am sure,
received, and considered, and cared for
with a Mother's love.
Amen.

.

.

.


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; exclusivity; focus; holiness; marybashing; worship
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you for that beautiful Scripture, dear sister in Christ, and thank you for sharing that Statement of Faith!
1,641 posted on 05/03/2010 8:59:08 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Still no answer. Very odd.


1,642 posted on 05/03/2010 8:59:43 PM PDT by narses (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: Quix

LOLOL!


1,643 posted on 05/03/2010 9:00:22 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: count-your-change

” However prayer is a part of worship and is reasonably defined as such:”

Many things are PART of others. Protties have NOTHING but PRAYER as worship, hence the confusion. Sad.


1,644 posted on 05/03/2010 9:01:23 PM PDT by narses (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: narses; wmfights; Quix; RnMomof7; boatbums
Do people bow to kings, salute officers in the military, doff their hats in respect to others?

Do people pray to them? Do people attribute to them characteristics that only God has? You can certainly honor someone without worshiping them. But when you attribute to someone all of God's characteristics and roles, and pray to them for things that only God can give, thereby responding to them in virtually the same way that you respond to Christ, you're going to have an awfully hard time convincing someone that what you're doing is not worshiping that person.

How is this worship?

By attributing to her characteristics and roles that belong to God only and praying to her as one would pray to God for things that only God can give.

It is VENERATION of the most HOLY women of all times.

A rose by any other name.....

Veneration, worship. A distinction without a difference.

Is the Mother of God NOT worthy of veneration?

God didn't have a mother. Christ did.

Calling Mary the *Mother of God* carries with it and implies a meaning different that calling her the *Mother of Christ*.

You can, through convoluted reasoning, justify the title all you want, but the two different titles send two different messages, subtle though they may be. And the message sent to non-Catholics is not as insignificant as Catholics like to portray it.

Words mean things and if Catholics are going to use improper words, they shouldn't be surprised that they're misinterpreted.

OTOH, if so many people are making the same error in interpreting what the Catholic Church teaches, it behooves the RCC to look at what it's saying because obviously something is getting lost in the translation, and it can't justify throwing the blame for that back on the people who misunderstood. The people making their case need to make sure they are precise and clear about what they teach. It's not the hearers responsibility to get the message across correctly.

If Catholics are going to call Mary the Mother of God, then they are going to have to live with the rest of the non-Catholic world thinking that Catholics believe that God had a mother and that Mary is greater than Him.

If they don't like it, then they should say what they mean.

1,645 posted on 05/03/2010 9:02:22 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
So you just know what each and every member of each and every parish thought.

You see, my problem with this is that you presented indulgences as being about the forgiveness of sin.

Since a few minutes online or in conversation with a learned Catholic would show how very wrong that was, there is a certain, well, hiccup in the matter of assessing the accuracy of the perceptions you present.

If you are mistaken in a matter any fool, such as myself, could get to the bottom of in very little time, how can I reasonably believe your account of a difficult to ascertain thing?

1,646 posted on 05/03/2010 9:04:56 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Deus autem noster in caelo;* omnia quaecumque voluit fecit. Alleluia)
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To: metmom
Not every mother is greater than her son. To call Mary the mother of God is therefore not to say she is greater than God.

Duh.

1,647 posted on 05/03/2010 9:07:26 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Deus autem noster in caelo;* omnia quaecumque voluit fecit. Alleluia)
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To: Mad Dawg
The god they proclaim is an exigent god who makes sure everyone believes just the right stuff in just the right way, and if they don't he rejects them and gives his servants authority to torment them.

And this from someone who adheres to a church which teaches that anyone who is not a member of it is going to hell?

If one doesn't believe just the right Catholic stuff in the right Catholic way, the church rejects (ex-communicates) them and gives its servants the right to torment them (read Inquisition).

Rather ironic.

1,648 posted on 05/03/2010 9:08:06 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Mad Dawg; metmom; Quix; 1000 silverlings; wmfights; RnMomof7; blue-duncan
I take it you interviewed every one of them (so that you KNEW what they thought, rather than just assuming they thought what your parents thought), collated your data, filtered it for education and years spent studying theology, and in general made sure it was representative of the Holy Church throughout all the world. You did make SURE your date was representative right? You wouldn't decide an organization was thoroughly wrong without scrupulous study, would you?

LOL. How much error does one have to understand and witness before one decides to shake the dust from their feet and go elsewhere?

"Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?" -- 1 Corinthians 5:6

Salvation does not require a Ph.D. It requires God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone, received by a mind renewed by the Holy Spirit and a repentant heart of flesh made sorrowful in the knowledge of its sins against the Triune God.

It just doesn't take a lot to realize Rome is heading in the wrong direction...


1,649 posted on 05/03/2010 9:10:25 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: metmom; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...

“Do people pray to them? “

Of course they do - a prayer is another name for a petition. Often people petition other people.

“Do people attribute to them characteristics that only God has?”

Why would they?

“Veneration, worship. A distinction without a difference.”

How foolish. Of course there is a HUGE difference. Worship belongs to God. Alone. You have just conceded that Veneration can be to man. Your words: “You can certainly honor someone without worshiping them.”

You are hung up on a REALITY, Mary is the Mother of Jesus, Our Lord, both True Man and True God, Mary His Mother.

THAT bothers you. Why?


1,650 posted on 05/03/2010 9:12:01 PM PDT by narses (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: Mad Dawg
NO I am not a predestinationist, not simply.

Just clarifying. It could have been read that way.

I just propose that there is only one Body of Christ, and to be saved is to be a member of that Body.

What the Catholic church teaches is that there is one body and an that to be a member of that body is to be saved.

A difference and not an insignificant one at that.

1,651 posted on 05/03/2010 9:12:05 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“Salvation does not require a Ph.D.”

Then why pretend to haver one “Doctor” Echoberg?


1,652 posted on 05/03/2010 9:13:14 PM PDT by narses (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

I need to read that again and should have my kids read it as well.


1,653 posted on 05/03/2010 9:13:20 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Mad Dawg

Sometimes it certainly is tempting to give into the feeling that authentic fruitful redemptive dialogue is impossible between our two camps.

Sigh.


1,654 posted on 05/03/2010 9:14:55 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: xzins; Quix; Salvation; wagglebee; P-Marlowe; betty boop
Thank you oh so very much for your wonderful insights and questions, dear brother in Christ!

Is what we spend our time doing an indication of what we hold in highest regard?

In our "elective" time, I'd say yes. To a teenage girl obsessed with her boyfriend, he is her top priority even though she is sleeping eight hours a day, going to school, doing homework, eating lunch, etc. She thinks about him at night going to bed, daydreams about him while at school, talks about him to her friends, can't wait to see him, etc.

At what point do our explanations of why we spend time the way we do become excuses for not spending more time with God?

IMHO, when the explanation becomes an excuse.

At what amount of time should we be concerned that we truly do not have God as the One to whom we "Give our all...?"

I don't think it can be quantified. But my brother taught me an exercise that makes the point quite well.

Namely, write down your priorities as you see them, e.g. 1) God, 2) Family, 3) Country...

Then ask your friends to write down your priorities as they see them in you (what you say and do.)

If there is a difference, there is a problem.

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

1,655 posted on 05/03/2010 9:20:18 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: narses

Apparently you didn’t take English lit.


1,656 posted on 05/03/2010 9:20:19 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: narses

Prayers to Msry IS worship of Mary, a no no by all means.
To-for, it makes a difference but your comments are enlightening, yes, quite so.


1,657 posted on 05/03/2010 9:23:27 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Mad Dawg
RC apologists make statements and then expect everyone to agree with those statements. If they don't, then somehow those who disagree are being duplicitous or mean or that favorite slur, "bigoted."

Nope. We read your words. We understand your tags. And we disagree with those words and morphing tags because they conflict with Scripture.

We're supposed to disagree with error. That's what's called "defending the faith." The Christian faith.

1,658 posted on 05/03/2010 9:26:07 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl

EXCELLENT POINTS.

That’s one of the reasons . . . in addition to the group process training and leading . . . that I’ve long had a habit of checking my perceptions of myself out with those who see me most.

THX.


1,659 posted on 05/03/2010 9:26:41 PM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Mad Dawg

LOLOL!


1,660 posted on 05/03/2010 9:27:05 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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