Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix
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7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, --New Living Translation 7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.] 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9Pray, therefore, like this: 15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses. --Amplified Pray with Simplicity 5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat? 6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace. 7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this: 16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well. |
Mark Kirby: O Mother of Good Counsel, I am all thine, Most Holy Mary, There is no part of my life that is not open to thee, I want to be completely transparent with thee, Praying in this way, I can be at rest, |
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bwig bwig twouble, widdle me, bwig bwig church
In my silly Church we think Christ took upon Himself the sufferings of others.
Do you happen to have that post number or link to that list of Ferraro quotes handy for Betty? I don’t.
lol. I think the horse posts here.
I have no screaming problem with the term.
We ain’t all in the same bathtub, thankfully.
LOL.
Some, no doubt, will drink to that.
Asked and answered.
Scholastic thinking about God, which I hold to and consider supported by the Letter of Peter, holds that God is not bound by time.
Generalthinking about God is that He, ahem, "cannot" lie, as we were recently reminded.
So when God adopts the blessed as His children, we think He makes that, so to speak 'legal' adoption 'real.' We are becoming His real live sho' 'nuff children. HE wouldn't call us Sons and Heirs if he didn't mean for it to be True.
AND, there's the earlier invitation to transfinite arithemetic. In short Mary and all the blessed share God's being above the limitations of time, God because of what He is, us because of God's gift.
Consequently Mary has "all the time in the world" to contemplate God AND all the time in the world to hear our petitions.
For a thousand years in His sight are but an evening, and an evening as a thousand years.
I read and studied and what I read and studied didn’t disagree with the teachings I had been raised with.
This is not any different from what I read and was taught as a Catholic, especially since Vatican II happened some years AFTER I was born.....
And since it would take a theological nuclear blast to change the minds of many Catholics older than I, that mindset never changed, even though it came from the Vatican itself. Many of the older Catholics strongly resisted the Vatican II pronouncements. I recall the furor over changing the mass from Latin to English, and to turn the altar around?
It bordered on heresy itself. The end of the world was around the corner. The church was denying its very essence.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm
Christian denominations, whether Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and Protestant, have historically taught that an afterlife awaits everyone. All people will eventually spend eternity in either:
bullet Heaven, where the rewards are beyond our wildest dreams, or
bullet Hell, where unbelievable levels of pain and suffering will last forever without any hope of relief.
Various denominations have taught that their particular followers have a better chance at attaining heaven, and that believers in other faith groups are either totally excluded from heaven or, at least, are more likely to go to Hell.
The author, who was brought up a Protestant, can recall a conversation over five decades ago with some Catholic friends from the neighborhood. He was taught in Sunday School that Catholics automatically go to Hell; his friends were taught in separate (Catholic, parochial) school that all Protestants end up in Hell.
These beliefs have since changed on both sides of the divide, as Christian faith groups have become more accepting of other denominations. Even beliefs about Hell itself have moderated; it is now seen by many religious groups to be simply a place of isolation from God.
There has been considerable movement by the Roman Catholic Church concerning the salvation status of non-Catholics. The church has gradually changed from an exclusivist to an inclusivist position, thus becoming more accepting of the validity of other Christian denominations and of other religions.
The fate of non-Catholics, as stated prior to Vatican II:
Before Vatican II, the Church consistently taught that only Roman Catholics had a chance to be saved and attain Heaven. Followers of other Christian denominations and of other religions would be automatically routed to Hell for all eternity:
* Pope Innocent III (circa 1160 - 1216 CE) is considered “one of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages...” 1 At the Fourth Lateran Council (a.k.a. the General Council of Lateran, and the Great Council) he wrote:
“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.”
* Pope Boniface VIII (1235-1303 CE) promulgated a Papal Bull in 1302 CE titled Unam Sanctam (One Holy). He wrote, in part:
“Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins...In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Ephesians 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed....Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” 2
The last sentence in the original Latin reads: “Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus, et pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis.” 3
* Pope Eugene IV, (1388-1447 CE) wrote a Papal bull in 1441 CE titled Cantate Domino. One paragraph reads:
“It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” 4
Amen.
Or is the Bible wrong here?
Hebrews 6:18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.
>>This is your thread Quix, but I issue a challenge to every Catholic, posting here and reading here, to come forward and assert, here and now that Mary is NOT their personal saviorette.<<
I am Catholic and I have never heard of the word savoirette.
Mary is not my savoirette.
“”Today I did water aerobics , worked out at the gym, did 2 hours of gardening, did some bible study and monitored a forum that I belong to, talked to a daughter in law , made dinner..cleaned up talked to a friend on the phone... and in between I posted here.””.
Drop the anti Catholicism and it sounds like a good day!
“”Do you want me to keep a list of my activities for ya?””
Here it is ,and I should be doing more..
Said morning prayers (45 min) prayed the Holy Spirit Rosary. Prayed the Chaplet of Saint Michael,went to Mass,did business forecast,did engineering work,talked to customers ,Prayed the Divine Mercy,worked out at the gym(was an ex powerlifter and athlete) ,made dinner for my daughter who just came back from studying abroad in Spain, Prayed the intercessory prayer of Saint Padre Pio for you to leave your heretical anti Catholic ways and return to the Catholic Church- Evening Prayers to come still and need to find time the rest of the week to attend Adoration for at least 3 hours in the Real Physical Presence of our Lord Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament.
It bothers me that I am not doing enough
This also means I’m going to bed soon.
I wish you a peaceful evening
well that would explain the hoofprints on the keyboard
Now this is interesting. For months your tag has been "Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee."
But beginning today you've changed your tag to "Deus autem noster in caelo;* omnia quaecumque voluit fecit. Alleluia."
And now you tell us "Mary is not my personal saviourette."
Not today, anyway.
beat it Mary, your kid is not my dad
Here's the title:
And it carries the official sanctions of:
ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.
WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR
Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .
Here they are:
However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.
p.32[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .
p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.
5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.
6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.
"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor
p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence
p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18
p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"
p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.' [Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]
p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue." [Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]
9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.' [Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]
p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.' [Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]
5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought." [QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]
p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."
p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"
p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."
Sorry, Betty, but every time I read through this small sample of such stuff from this TREASURED Roman Catholic classic . . . I'm STUNNED at the blatant, barzen idolatry and blasphemy.
As Alamo-Girl says most mildly--"Jeepers."
At some point, words fail me.
Dunno which translation you use, but here's what I have:
Joh 14:14
(ASV) If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.
(ESV) If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
(ISV) If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it."
(KJV) If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
(MKJV) If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
(e-Sword: Compare)
I tend to rely upon the King James as authoritative, so I question whether the "me" is there at all...
I would only submit this to you: If we are free to pray any old way we want to, why the construct of the priesthood and it's ultimate culmination in Christ?
As I said, I am content to submit myself before the Lord in the way that He provided... It seems that is what He did it for.
These beliefs have since changed on both sides of the divide, as Christian faith groups have become more accepting of other denominations. Even beliefs about Hell itself have moderated; it is now seen by many religious groups to be simply a place of isolation from God.
Dante has a pagan get saved. In his tale, which no one is expected to take literally, the pagan in question is, resuscitated and baptized, and then allowed to die again, so that he can be saved. He did not get in trouble for writing this. And the meaning is clear: The boundaries of the Church are known to God, not to us.
“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.”
This where one has to use one's head. Hint: View this as a definition of the Church, NOT just a statement about who gets saved and who doesn't. Christ does not have more than one body. The saved are members of the body.
Mutatis mutandis with Boniface's bull.
You can insist on reading it as if it says: "If you do not, before you die, submit yourself to the Pope, they're gonna set the oven to 'extra crispy.'" OR you can read it as I do, that if all those whom God chooses also had the grace to see that BY THAT CHOICE of GOD's they are subject to the Roman Pontiff, they're walk would have a whole lot more consolations than it does.
As to Pope Eugene: I DO think there is a special burden on tthose borught up in the Catholic Church to study and to travel far, if need be, to find the best advice and counsel before they apostasize.
But I do not think that God is a vindictive jerk trying to make it hard for those he loves. He understands better than you or I do that being brought up in dysfunctional families and dysfunctional parishes amounts to having the rational faculty and the will under unceasing attack. He knows when someone errs about WHERE truth and justice lie, and erring about that, chooses the wrong path.
And such invincibly ignorant apostates cannot really be held to be in mortal sin because they were misled by a buynch of really lousy Catholics who used religion as cover for their proposing their lousy, neurotic, problems.
I still think that when you say:,br>There has been considerable movement by the Roman Catholic Church concerning the salvation status of non-Catholics. The church has gradually changed from an exclusivist to an inclusivist position,
you are not putting the experience of your earlier life in the right slot in the hierarchy of truth.
INDEED.
Indeed, any thing or any one that we love equal to or more than God - if even for a moment - is an idol to us.
A moment in time. That is a good question, Sister Alamo, that jumps at us in the question of “Give your all to...?”
Is what we spend our time doing an indication of what we hold in highest regard?
At what point do our explanations of why we spend time the way we do become excuses for not spending more time with God?
At what amount of time should we be concerned that we truly do not have God as the One to whom we “Give our all...?”
= = =
EXCELLENT POINTS.
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