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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
As you might have noticed, I am a huge fan of betty boop's writings. She has beautiful insights and she delivers them with grace and elegance. I thank God for her every day.
I remember reading a remark like that from Padre Pio, or St. John Vianney, or another one like those men, in a biography.
Seriously, I am interested in purchasing a copy when it is published.
Thank you for bringing your thread back to its stated topic. That blatant double standard arises from the position of presumed guilt with respect to Catholic priests and presumed innocence when discussing the non-Catholic clergy. It truly is "Nifonging the Catholic Church. Too bad too many are too damned dumb to understand what you wanted to do with this thread.
While I do enjoy discussions of hill-billy history and Calvin's sins those should be subjects of their own threads.
Forbidden is such a Protestant word.
Yeah, we got off topic a number of places, chiefly when I dared to have an opinion about St. Paul that upset the bigots.
What a demeaning and insulting post. Why do you assume that Judith Anne is incapable of arriving at a position by herself and why do you deny her or any Catholic the inherent right you claim for all Protestants to be the sole and final interpreter and arbitrator of all things Scriptural?
Then, by all means, carry on.
It gives the lurkers great cause to shake their heads at the absurd obtuseness.
Well and wisely put.
Thx.
INDEED.
Christ took on Himself the role of servant.
Paul considered himself the chiefest of sinners.
Seems to me . . . taking on one’s self the hubris and cheek to look down one’s long nose at inferior Paul . . . somehow misses the Biblical examples of humility in both of the below.
Christ took on Himself the role of servant.
Paul considered himself the chiefest of sinners.
Well put.
ROFL! And your posts, on the other hand....ROFLOL!
I have never found any reason to think that the stuff about God not respecting persons meant anything more than that he does not respect the status of individuals as understood in earthly or carnal terms. A king kneels as does a street-sweeper as does a derelict before the throne of God.
But I do not think that Moses and Elijah were not in some sense greater than, say, Esau, or that Paul was not greater than Epaphroditus. It wouldn't be wrong in my view to value the spiritual counsel of a pastor more than that of a derelict in the gutter, though both might have placed their trust in Jesus and be saved.
When James says the the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much I think if he meant to say “of any saved Christian” he would have. As it is he seems to me to say that some Christians are more righteous than others, despite their all being justified before God.
When the Church declares someone a saint (”conferring” is imprecise speech) she declares that the person is a heroic exemplar of the saving work of God. Of course, the “saint” in question doesn't “need” the title. But those who think that John Paul II or Mother Theresa were heroic exemplars are comforted in having that opinion agreed with.
I don't understand the question about the “purpose” of or “need” for saints in the Church. Certainly the “saints” I feel close to serve as spurs for me to devote more time to prayer and works of mercy. Other “saints”, for whom I feel no especial ‘tug’ still spur me to praise God for His glory shown in transformed lives and still encourage me to hope that God might do great works through me.
It seems to us that star differs from star in glory, and that not only does God seem to make some people spectacular examples of what He can do and does do in the lives of all the redeemed, but, more than that, they show how God has shared so very much with us and has, so to speak, “constructed” his Mystical Body to meet the social needs of humans, who are gregarious animals.
In our experience, there is a dynamic in the life of Grace. We grow in faith, by God's unmerited gift. I know of an atheist in the 1800’s who went from skepticism bordering on cynicism to profound faith, from a dilettantish and comfortable life to an evangelical ministry among the Jews in Palestine. But such sudden and complete changes don't happen to all of us. We journey on over sunlight peaks and through dark and dank valleys.
We are strengthened by the society of all the holy ones as we travel. Sure God can comfort us anyway He wants. But in our experience one way He has chosen is the prayers, witness, and fellowship of the holy ones on earth and in heaven.
This is not intended to prove anything but rather to present answers to your questions.
Actually, the best paper I read on the authorship of Ephesians was written by a Baptist. He presented pros and cons for Paul’s authorthip. Very even-handed.
Alex Murphy makes collections of people's posts. Isn't that convenient? I am so grateful! ;-D
Thx.
Waiting for more healing mostly. Next adjustment visit on next Monday.
I certainly agree that Holy Spirit makes us one in Christ's Body--through His Blood.
I believe that THE FATHER'S VOICE on the Mount of Transfiguration SIGNALED LOUDLY AND CLEARLY
HIS perspective on Peter's "Let's make 3 tabernacles/shelters--(for Moses, Elijah and Christ).
What did THE FATHER SAY?
THIS IS MY ---->BELOVED !!!!SON!!!!<----
IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED.
It is quite reasonable to construe that intervention by THE FATHER as a slap at Peter's suggestion for giving equal honor, billing to Moses and Elijah with Christ.
I do believe that there is a Scriptural STANDARD over the whole of Scripture that indicates that IN GENERAL, Believers are not to focus on graduated believers in any sense nor are they to attempt communication with them. The focus is to be exclusively on God--particularly CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED. If there are any exceptions to such--such as Mt of Transfiguration--such exceptions are to be GOD INITIATED, GENERATED--START TO FINISH.
It is also instructive, to ME, that of all the many accounts I've read of folks of any Christian label having a Heavenly visitation and returning to tell about it--there has not been one single description or narrative about the Believers in Heaven praying for, interceding for, mediating for Believers on earth.
That includes Mary. The very few mentions of Mary from such visits at all describe her helping, amongst many others, including angels, to teach children--such as babies who were victims of infanticide/abortion--the ways of God. She has absolutely no special role in Heaven as a result of being Christ's mother in any of such reports. That, to me, is also consistent with Scripture.
Thanks for your kind reply. Much appreciate your caring and thoughtfulness.
WHAT WONDERFULLY EXCELLENT BIBLICAL SPIRIT BREATHED WISDOM. PRAISE GOD:
Thank you so much for sharing your testimony and insights, dear sister in Christ!
I can find all kinds of reasons to blameshift and excuse my bad behavior and why people should go easy on me. I’ve always expected more from them than me.
Truly, I suspect we all cope with this problem throughout our Christian walk - indeed, throughout our lives.
Even toddlers seem to think they are the “center of the universe.” And if they never come to grips with that misconception, I suspect they will have a hard time in life.
It is such a problem for me, I meditate on pride every morning as part of my prayer. I remind myself that about a hundred billion people have lived on this planet and that I am just one of them.
By comparison, that is like one drop of water in an Olympic sized swimming pool - or one star in the Milky Way galaxy.
Likewise, I remind myself that I can only see through my own eyes. No matter how much I endeavor to see the world through the other guy’s eyes, I cannot. I can never really “feel his pain.” I can never really understand. Only God can.
More importantly, I cannot see “all that there is” all at once. I cannot see the beginning and the end of every thing and every one. I cannot see how it all fits together. Only God can do this. Only He speaks objective Truth.
And I remind myself how easily I am deceived by my own physical senses. For an example, I quote myself (LOLOL!):
My favorite example is a fly in your car going 5 mph. That is his speed from his perspective as the observer.
But your car is speeding down the road at 65 mph. So for the guy watching you from the roadside table, that fly is going 70 mph.
But the road you have taken is on the equator and the circumference of the earth at the equator is 24,901.55 miles and the earth rotates once every 24 hours. So that fly is now going 1,100 mph + 70 mph = 1,170 mph.
Moreover, the orbital length of earth traveling around the sun is 149,600,000 miles, traveled in 365.25 days. That is 67,000 miles per hour. So add that in, and the fly is going 68,170 mph.
The sun orbits the Milky Way galaxy at a speed of 486,000 miles per hour. Add that in, and the fly is now going 554,170 miles per hour.
All of this and we haven’t gotten to the accelerating expansion of the universe, i.e. space/time itself. Space/time doesn’t pre-exist – it is created as the universe expands.
A galaxy 1 million light years away would seem to be moving away from us at a rate of 60,000 miles per hour. For every 3.26 million light years further out that we look, the galaxies seem to be moving away from us at an additional 162,000 miles per hour. In sum, the universe is currently at least 156 billion light years wide.
And that is looking at motion from the fly’s perspective. If we go in the other direction as “observer” – the quantum – the cumulative velocities are even more mind-boggling.
betty boop has been developing a manuscript for “God and the Observer Problem” and I imagine such things will be addressed in there. IMHO, it is a much needed book - because the “observer problem” affects all kinds of things: culture, politics, education, science, psychology, philosophy and most importantly, our Christian walk.
And so, as you have said in your testimony, I shall also endeavor to readjust my perspective concerning every issue that arrives on my “plate” in this life.
Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every [thing], and [that] no thought can be withholden from thee. Who [is] he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor [myself], and repent in dust and ashes. - Job 42:1-6
God’s Name is I AM.
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