Nifonging the Catholic Church

me ^ | April 18, 2010 | vanity

[Judith Anne]

I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.

Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.

I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!

Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!

Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!

What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?

Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?

Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!

[Alamo-Girl]

I'm combining my reply to 2187 and 2195.

There is a variation among us Christians as you say in the extent to which we have experienced God's forgiveness. I readily admit to being a foul sinner, forgiven by the grace of God in Christ Jesus my Lord. For that reason, I dare not withhold forgiveness from anyone else.

Likewise, I'm confident the prodigal son had a deeper appreciation for his father's love than the faithful son. The faithful son had his inheritance, but the prodigal son had his forgiveness. And I reckon he was more grateful than the faithful son could imagine.

And Paul, having persecuted the Christians, experienced tremendous forgiveness when God called Him to reveal His Son in Him. I doubt the other Christians in his day could appreciate the extent of his devotion.

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. - Romans 5:20-21

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. - Romans 6:1-4

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

Truly, the one who has experienced God's forgiveness is not the same man.

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

[Quix]

Very well put and excellent Scriptures. Thanks.

[RegulatorCountry]

I’m just a big history buff, history and genealogy led me back to Christianity, and I am particularly keen on neglected history, both church and secular, not that the two can easily be separated prior to our Revolution.

Many of the very early, precursor churches to the Reformation get short shrift, I’m descended from people who belonged to several of them, and so I try to tell their story on these threads.

I keep wanting to delve into the fact that the American Revolution was widely known as the Presbyterian Revolution in England, even by King George. But, that opportunity just hasn’t arisen. It’ll come, though, lol.

Blessings to you as well, good night.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragement, dear brother in Christ!

[Quix]

Interesting.

Thanks much.

A blessed good night and week to you and yours as well.

[Alamo-Girl]

I keep wanting to delve into the fact that the American Revolution was widely known as the Presbyterian Revolution in England, even by King George. But, that opportunity just hasn’t arisen. It’ll come, though, lol.

At this point, I usually point out the New England Primer - whereby the founding fathers and others at that time learned to read and write - included a lot of Protestant theology.

The influence can also be seen in the Primary Source Documents.

[boatbums]

Along the same vein, allow me to share a poem I wrote in my Bible long ago (I do not know the author, but I am blessed by reading it even after all these years).

As children bring their broken toys with tears for us to mend,
I brought my broken traits to God because he was my friend.
But then instead of leaving him in peace to work alone,
I hung around and tried to help, in ways that were my own.
At last I snatched them back again and said, "How could you be so slow?"
"My child", he said, "What could I do? You never did let go."

I hope you all have a blessed and peaceful night. Boatbums - out.

[Alamo-Girl]

Oh, that is precious! Thank you so very much for sharing it, dear sister in Christ!

[Joya]

2,172

Amen.

= = =
Lord, I CHOOSE FORGIVE ___________ FOR ________________. PLEASE, LORD, MAKE IT REAL IN MY EMOTIONS, HEART, MIND, SPIRIT AS FULLY AS POSSIBLE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

I take the Sword of The Spirit and cut them off from any of my judgments, resentments etc. I repent of all such feelings and attitudes. I release them fully to your care and discipline as you see fit, Lord. I wish for them a full Salvation, redemptive relationship with you, Lord.

I ask you to help them learn whatever you want them to learn out of all this in your ways and your timing.

Help me Lord, to see them as you see them. Help me to release them fully to you and help me to refuse to ‘go there’ any more. Help me to stop dwelling on it in my mind another microsecond. Help me to focus instead on all your forgiveness, Love and mercies to me, Lord.

In Jesus’ Name.

And if the enemy tempts me with an unforgiving thought or feeling again . . .

NO! AWAY FROM ME, IN JESUS’ NAME. I have forgiven _____ fully and will not take up the offense again. I bless them in Jesus’ Name for the fullest relationship with God possible for them. The more you harrass me with any such memories, the more I will bless them in Jesus’ Name.

I want my sins buried in the sea of forgetfulness and as far from me as the east most galactic cluster is from the west most galactic cluster. So I forgive them the same extent, in Jesus’ Name. I hold nothing further against them at all, ever.

Lord, please heal me of any memory or other emotional gritch related to all this, in Jesus’ Name.

I forgive them fully. That settles my half with God. Amen.

[Forest Keeper]

...... We do not ignore Paul. We simply interpret Paul correctly, in the light of the Gospels.

You absolutely and most certainly do ignore Paul. :) "Interpreting Paul in light of the Gospels" is code for ignoring Paul completely whenever he disagrees with Catholic theology (which is often). Recently you have said yourself that you do not believe Paul was Trinitarian. Therefore, you must ignore the many Pauline scriptures that have been given to you showing that he understood and believed in the Trinity.

I have found that the correct interpretation of Paul according to Catholicism leaves little left of Paul's actual words. I think that Judith Anne's testimony of her opinion of Paul's actual words is really closer to the true opinion of many Catholics about Paul (at least around here).

There appear to be two very distinct Catholic approaches. One is like Judith Anne's, read Paul's actual words, understand them for what they are, and disagree with many of them. The other approach is like yours, say that Paul was right when read through the prism of the Catholic view of the Gospels. The problem with this, though, is that it obliterates what Paul actually said and changes it into something completely different. So, to me when a Catholic says that Paul was right he is really speaking of some other invented Paul, not the one portrayed in the Bible.

[Quix]

Wonderful.

Thx thx.

[Quix]

Amen! Amen! Thx Thx.

[Quix]

THX THX.

[Quix]

WELL PUT.

THX.

[1000 silverlings]

well Paul did not wax eloquently on Mariology, if he had, it would be a different story. From other threads, we have learned that some people read a Mary-centic bible, no matter the subject, no matter the verse, they substitute Mary for every subject and object and proceed from there. I f it's the "ark", read "Mary", if it's "Israel", read "Mary," if it's "Christ" read "Mary", really helps to make the bible easy to understand.

[Quix]

WELL PUT.

—if it’s a rainbow it = Mary
—if it’s honoring father and mother = Mary

However, if it’s Jesus’ blood brothers and sisters—it’s NOT Mary and Not Scripture . . .

according to the rubber history and rubber Bible revisionists at the Vatican rubber factory.

[Judith Anne]

We take the accused, assumed to be innocent, and bring him before the proper authorities who will review the evidence and render a ruling which is supposed to mirror the judgment of God.

Except, of course, when it's a Catholic priest accused of child sexual abuse 20-50 years AFTER THE FACT.

[Judith Anne]

You know good and well that Prottys mean that the person has died to this time/space dimension—not eternally dead-cease-to-exist. You KNOW that. We KNOW that. What’s with this absurdity?

How would I know what prottys mean? That would be mind reading, as you are doing in this post.

I believe the saints are alive. I do not see that Christ our Lord has prohibited us from asking for their intercession. I believe God is the Author of the time/space continuum and is above and beyond it. That is not absurd, unless you think God is absurd.

[Judith Anne]

You absolutely and most certainly do ignore Paul. :) "Interpreting Paul in light of the Gospels"

The whole Bible must be interpreted in the light of the Gospels. Life must be interpreted in the light of the Gospels. Everything is subordinate to the light of the Gospels. Do you have some greater light than the Gospels, by which you interpret anything?

is code for ignoring Paul completely whenever he disagrees with Catholic theology (which is often). Recently you have said yourself that you do not believe Paul was Trinitarian. Therefore, you must ignore the many Pauline scriptures that have been given to you showing that he understood and believed in the Trinity.

As far as I can see, there is only ONE verse that shows Paul as a trinitarian, and that in in Ephesians, if I remember correctly. And I'm not entirely certain Paul wrote Ephesians. If I remember my reading correctly, there is some major doubt about that.

I have found that the correct interpretation of Paul according to Catholicism leaves little left of Paul's actual words. I think that Judith Anne's testimony of her opinion of Paul's actual words is really closer to the true opinion of many Catholics about Paul (at least around here).

My opinion of Paul is my opinion of Paul. I speak for no one else, certainly not the Catholic Church. The fact that I do not like him does not mean that I throw him out. I just don't like him.

[metmom]

My new mindset and prayer is that I can forgive others as I want them and God to forgive me.

I can find all kinds of reasons to blameshift and excuse my bad behavior and why people should go easy on me. I’ve always expected more from them than me.

Not very equitable, I’d say.