Nifonging the Catholic Church

I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.

Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.

I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!

Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!

Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!

What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?

Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?

metmom says:

Essentially, penance makes Catholicism a works religion.

Only for those with a flawed understanding of theology. Work cannot save. Yet God requires that we DO good work.

"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me." And then He shall say, "Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me."

And to those that don't do the work commanded, Our Lord shall say, "Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me."

Some lessons in Christianity:

2 Corinthians 5: 10 For we must all appear 7 before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil.

Romans 14: 10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.” 12 So (then) each of us shall give an account of himself (to God).

Revelation 20: 11 9 Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them. 12 I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. 10 The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. 13 The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades 11 gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds.

Romans 2: 5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6 who will repay everyone according to his works: 3 7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, 8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. 9 Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek. 11 4 There is no partiality with God.

Matthew 25: 41 17 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 24: 45 26 27 “Who, then, is the faithful and prudent servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household to distribute to them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master on his arrival finds doing so. 47 Amen, I say to you, he will put him in charge of all his property. 48 28 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is long delayed,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eat and drink with drunkards, 50 the servant’s master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour 51 and will punish him severely 29 and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.

Matthew 20: 32 His master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. 33 Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?’ 34 Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. 23 35 24 So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart.”

Matthew 19: 24 19 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, 20 take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 21 26 What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? 27 22 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.

This is Bible belief. This is Christianity. Unless you believe this, you are not Christ oriented. You are non Christian.

Catholics are never be sure of their salvation, but always hope for it, hence their continual devotion to rites, sacraments, and other acts of what they consider righteousness. In spite of that, they insist that theirs is the only true church, and you must belong to it in order to avoid hell for eternity, which it can’t even guarantee them of that anyway

It just so happens that I was reading the OPC Q&A, and that topic was addressed. Here is a relevant paragraph:

This means that we cannot peer into the eternal decree of God. God chooses not to reveal to us all things he knows, including who is predestined and who is not. The only indication we have as to whether people are predestined is if they say they trust in Christ and are bearing fruit in the Kingdom. Beyond that, we can never say who is predestined onto life and who is not. Likewise, for ourselves, if we trust in Christ and love God as our Father and are bearing fruit for the Kingdom, than we have every reason to be assured of being saved once and for all.

If if if. There are a lot of "ifs" in that paragraph.

"The Hail Mary, as prayed on the Rosary."

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee (direct quote from scripture: Luke 1:28)

Blessed are thou among women, and blessed id the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (direct quote from scripture: Luke 1:42)

Holy Mary, mother of God (Christ is God incarnete, and since Mary bore God in her womb she is rightly called the Mother of God: "Theotokos", or "God-bearer". Remeber what Elizabeth said: "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?" Luke 1:43)

pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen (Revelation 5:8 shows that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us, and in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Paul strongly encouraged Christians to intercede for each other since such prayers are "pleasing to God". Since Paul says that death does not seperate us from God, it is good to ask our departed brothers and sisters to pray for us the same way we would ask those on earth to pray for us. After all, "the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" James 5:16 (KJV).

Really? Unclear? We ask Mary, the Mother of God, to pray for us so that we may be made worthy of Heaven. Now that you know, does that bother you?

The only one capable of making us worthy of heaven is Jesus Himself, the one who died for us in our place and to whom we go for forgiveness.

Mary has no more power to do anything to help someone get into heaven than anyone else on the planet.

Besides, God is very clear in the Bible that we are not to be trying to contact the dead.

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

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