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To: reaganaut

I think don’t a Bible student would use archeology to prove something in the Bible. The innerant Word of God needs no outside proof. “Cross” used in the N.T. ‘stauro’ means a stake or stick. You can’t explain that away. Regardless what trinketts or sketches one may find, a Bible student will take the trust in the Bible, always trying to get back to the original inspired Word of God.
Here is why I believe the horrible weapon of torture and death used on our Lord was a pole.
Mat. 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
A grown man stretched out on a ‘traditional’ cross when his legs are broken the weight being tranfered to the hands/palms/wrist would just tear out if not redistributed with a rope or belt but not quickening death. But a man being crucified as reported in the Bible (hands stretched tight above his head, when you break his legs breathing would be reduced eponentially and suffocation would come quickly. With your traditional weapon that record in the Scriptures makes now sense, with the true weapon, a stake or stick, makes perfect sense. More importantly brother, he gave up his life before his legs could be broken which would have been contrary to prophesy, and we know he always did God’s will and lived a sinless life so we could receive everlasting life in paradise with him and other like us. God bless you.


171 posted on 04/07/2010 4:56:50 AM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever)
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To: Doulos1; Colofornian; Godzilla

I think don’t a Bible student would use archeology to prove something in the Bible

- - - - - - - -
You are kidding right? Then you don’t think. Period.

Have you ever actually done any serious, academic biblical studies?

Granted, it depends upon your methodology, if you focus on textual criticism, linguistics, historical, or biblical archaeology, but ALL, ALL Bible Scholars (and I know several personally as I have been in the field for many years) use archaeology in their studies. Faithful or not, all serious Bible scholars look at archeological evidence in relation to their topic.

As to your objects, your concusions are erroneous and typical of they pseudo-intellectual arguments used by the JW’s.

Nails at the wrist with foot support (either front or side - they did both) would NOT tear, nor break legs and there is also some documentary evidence that ropes were often used to help support the arms on the cross piece.

Get back to me when you actually want to approach this as a faithful (believing) academic.

An older book that is still referenced on this is “A doctor at Calvary”


174 posted on 04/07/2010 8:30:17 AM PDT by reaganaut (- "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Doulos1; reaganaut
The innerant Word of God needs no outside proof. “Cross” used in the N.T. ‘stauro’ means a stake or stick.

Only if you discount that the termonlogy is in the classical greek sense - but we are talking Koine Greek here. The fact is that the word has a broader sense and use. Here archaeology provides detail and depth on this point.

The 1968 discovery of the remains of an individual who was cruxified were found. The wear of the nail on the bone made it clear the orientation of the arm - it was subhorizontal. As discribed by N. Haas of the Department of Anatomy at Hebrew University in Israel Exploration Journal, 1970 he states:

"The whole of our interpretation concerning the position of the body on the cross may be described briefly as follows: The feet were joined almost parallel, both transfixed by the same nail at the heels, with the legs adjacent; the knees were doubled, the right one overlapping the left; the trunk was contorted; the upper limbs were stretched out, each stabbed by a nail in the forearm."

Further historical/archaeological evidence comes from the romans themselves. Roman uses stipes (vertical beam) and patibulum (crossbeam) for their cruxifictions. Criminals commonly carried the crossbeam to their execution. Since there is no mention of a hole being dug for Christ, it is probable that he carried the crossbeam.

As I said, archaeological studies clarify the actual practices used at the time and broaden the understanding of the koine greek termonlogy.

Since you believe the "innerant Word of God" needs no outside proof -

John 20:25 - "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

They used two nails, not one as would be the case (and is commonly depicted by JW) if Jesus was nailed to a stake. Jesus was crucified upon a cross not a stake as the Bible indicates.

177 posted on 04/07/2010 11:01:26 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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