Posted on 03/12/2010 7:02:37 AM PST by Colofornian
Women have a sacred role in the sanctification and purification of men, Elder Glenn L. Pace of the Seventy told students and faculty during the campus devotional in the Marriott Center at BYU on Tuesday, March 9.
Reflecting on the love he felt from his mother, sister, wife and daughters, Elder Pace spoke of the positive influence women have had on his life.
Speaking specifically about a time when his daughter fell asleep in his arms, Elder Pace noted the comfort it must have brought his daughter to be held by her father. He realized afterward that even greater was the peace and comfort she brought to him.
Looking to the Savior as an example, Elder Pace spoke of the love and respect He bestowed upon women.
"As we read about these associations, our focus is generally on what He teaches them and the love and understanding He gives them," Elder Pace said. "Have you ever considered the possibility that these women provided immense comfort to His burdened soul? It is my belief that He needed them as He journeyed toward living a perfect life in order that He could provide the ultimate sacrifice."
Just as the Savior needed righteous women, so do men today in purifying and sanctification in their lives.
Sharing excerpts from the story of the creation found in the book of Abraham, Elder Pace told of how the earth was created — before Eve — where Adam had been placed in the Garden of Eden. In the garden, Adam was enjoying a utopia in physical surroundings as well as open communication with God. Still, it was not complete without Eve.
"I believe the Father's statement 'It is not good that the man should be alone' (Genesis 2:18) had a much more profound meaning than the obvious biological implications," he said. "It also went further than providing Adam with company. Adam's ability to obtain the purification necessary to get back into the presence of God was dependent upon his continuous association with Eve."
In order for men and women to obtain the highest degree of celestial glory, there is need to be married, Elder Porter said.
"There is a limit to our spiritual development as long as we are single. There is a spiritual development which can only be obtained when a man and a woman join their incomplete selves into a complete couple," he said. "Just as conception requires the physical union of male and female, perfection requires the union of the very souls of male and female."
Although single men and women can accomplish great things on their own, they are incomplete until united intellectually, emotionally, physically and most important, spiritually, he said.
"The world we live in has gone awry with its focus on the physical part of the male and female relationship. If there is too much focus on the physical, the vital areas of intellectual, emotional and spiritual union are not being placed in an environment where they can flourish and grow."
Elder Pace spoke of the obsession the current society has on "making love," rather than developing a complete relationship that enables "expressing love." Because melding divine natures is a necessary element in bringing about perfection, Elder Pace said, individuals must guard against any deterioration of those natures.
"If the world keeps chipping away at the divine nature of women, it is probable that our relationships in marriage will not bring about the sanctification necessary for exaltation or, at a minimum, the process will be delayed," he said.
Referring to the phrase, "men have the priesthood and women have been given the blessing of procreation," Elder Pace spoke of the importance of each role in a relationship, and the ability couples have to complement one another in their eternal roles.
"It is the marriage ceremony in the temple where husband and wife receive the power to perfect their relationship and, thereby, obtain their exaltation."
As individuals work together to become a whole, as the Lord has commanded, they work together to become a combination of complementary capacities and characteristics.
"Sisters, I testify that when you stand in front of your heavenly parents in those royal courts on high and you look into Her eyes and behold Her countenance, any question you ever had about the role of women in the kingdom will evaporate into the rich celestial air, because at that moment you will see standing directly in front of you, your divine nature and destiny."
I would suggest you be the one to not lie. If you were Mormon, you would understand that Mormonism teaches Christ is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. And even if we didn’t believe in Christ’s pre-earth life as having been divine which we do believe, why does that deny our ability to worship Christ? It’s a doctrinal difference, nothing more. Either you were never Mormon as you claim or you did not understand the church’s teachings and left out of ignorance. People like you leave the church, but can’t leave it alone. One has to ask why. I would maintain the person you are most trying to convince that Mormonism is wrong is yourself-—because within your core there’s a kernal telling you that you may have made a terrible mistake. Goodbye. I have nothing more to say.
Misses, you are new to the party here. I was indeed Mormon. My ancestors all joined the LDS Church before the westward trek to Utah. I am a sixth generation Mormon, born into a household where my father was in the Bishopric.
Someone here is lying and it isn’t me.
I suggest you know nothing of the Christian God if you think He is anything like the Mormon Father in Heaven, and his first son Jesus Christ and his second son Lucifer.
Not the same being - not at all!
These are sacred topics and we wish people would be more respectful of our faith
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Oh silly me now I undersatand...
It was because of the exposure of the mormon belief in godesses or a mormon goddess ..
(who requires capitals whilw the Christian God can go fly a kite)
So when I said “But they write capitals for their pagan belief in godesses...”
because if this little goody in the MORMON article...
“Sisters, I testify that when you stand in front of your heavenly parents in those royal courts on high and you look into Her eyes and behold Her countenance,”
capitals for “Her”, Saundra ???
a pagan goddess ???
Oh noes, heathen religion...
Mormonism is not Chrisianity...
Then you are admitting that your claim regarding mormonism's claim treatment of women is now false? Those within Christianity who did view women as lesser, did so in direct opposition to scripture.
Lastly, as an ex-military intelligency guy, I find it remarkable at how easy you seem to disregard proper analysis of documents. Case in point is your misrepresentation of Heber Kimball. He wasn’t describing women as inferior; he was describing how the act of marriage doesn’t faze him just like buying a cow is no big deal. Since it takes two to tango, if you interpret his statement to mean women are inferior, then that would mean he thought of himself as inferior as well. After all, there can be no polygamous wife without having her married to a man.
Contrary, my MI background permits me to cut through the unprocessed compost and get to the point. To "think no more about taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." is outrageously egotistical and sexist. IF he considers marriage to that of buying a cow is not in the context - it is another WIFE. Wonderful dinner table conversation - my marriage to you is no different from buying a cow. Your logic further jumps the shark if he felt inferior as well - especially from one who complained that the missionaries were only sending the ugly women to Utah.
I’ve tended to avoid rude people, those who resort to ridicule instead of crafting a proper response. If you want to engage me in a conversation, be a professional, and maintain the standards that you learned in the military.
LOL, my post did not ridicule you - unless you are thin skinned enough to be upset about my laughing at your post. Further I accepted your statement ("I have no problem with your statement"). Or was it that I challenged your use of the term NEVER. I learned a long time ago never use absolutes eddie. I even asked you a fair question for clarification to document your version of lds doctrine.
Sorry eddie - I won't kiss your keister. You have no place telling me to meet 'military' standards that you have not done your self in your history. Forum rules indicate that the 'thin skinned' need not participate.
Not once have I encountered one who treats a subject matter he disagrees with in such a disrespectful and dismissive manner.
eddie, my first encounter with you is still engrained in my mind - and your reply was both dismissive and disrespectful, so my friend there is something more for you to seek forgiveness for at sacrament.
I do not believe Catholicism or Protestantism are correct, but I do not write about them the way you do concerning my faith. That’s just embarassing.
What is embarassing is the constent non-answers by mormons to simple direct questions. I contrast and compare mormon doctrine to Biblical Christianity. And should i choose to dig into your 'online' book, I'm pretty sure I'll find a lot of what could be nasty remarks in there.
Tell me one thing eddie - Why does Utah leads the nation in per capita use of some prescription drugs, largly women, if they are not being treated as INFERIOR?
I gotta admit I admire the Mormons for how they spiritualize mans sexual gratification. If it were not for the we can all become gods stuff I might actually convert.
The tripartite structure of the Godhead is one of the central aspects of LDS theology that Elder Oaks stressed as critical to LDS beliefs. “We maintain that … God the Father is not a spirit but a glorified Being with a tangible body, as is his resurrected Son, Jesus Christ. Though separate in identity, they are one in purpose.” In addition, the purpose of existence in this reality has a definite purpose in LDS: “to qualify for the glorified celestial condition and relationships that are called exaltation or eternal life.” The means of achieving this state are defined according to a religious plan for one's life, a plan that, “can only be accomplished through an eternal marriage between a man and a woman.”
Elder Oaks' full remarks, are available online at Apostle Addresses Harvard Audience on Mormon Faith.
Misses, you are new to the party here.
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No Misses is a Romneybot who has been around these threads bashing Chrsityians and conservatives who refused to vote for the abortion pusher Romney...
We never viewed women as property, first owned by their father then by their husbands
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You may want to read the Journal of Discourses on that. One of the leaders complained about the missionaries grabbing all the young women before the ‘sheep’ were delivered to Utah.
I believe I will be bonded in heaven with Tennessee Nana and all other believers in Christ. Husbands and wives, children, friends, neighbors, ancestors and progeny will all be together with Christ and in Christ.
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I i with you, CC
:)
Did you time travel from the first century to now?
My eddie I thought you NEVER disagreed in this manner
Not once have I encountered one who treats a subject matter he disagrees with in such a disrespectful and dismissive manner.
Or is it because CC is a woman and that big, bad male priesthood superiority thing rising up because she isn't in her place.
She joined in 2009. I take it she doesn’t know my history in Mormonism or she wouldn’t have posted so foolishly about my knowledge and questioned my integrity.
She would also understand my new and deep love for Christ, my Savior - the one told in the Bible. She would understand that I view my Temple ordinances as unholy and disrespectful to Christ who shed His blood for me - not because he wanted me to attend worthless movie showings and wear weird underwear, but that my sins would be removed and I would be seen because of His blood as perfect - therefore letting me approach a Holy God in relationship.... and she would also understand that I would never, ever, ever leave my Savior to return to the abject bondage and bleakness that is found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the Mormons)
That’s what I meant by “new to the party.”
Edward I have sent you 3 posts that you havent assressed yet..
I put them all together so you can answer them in one post...
You had said, “I do not want to see her in heaven but not be allowed to be with her just because our marriage bond was severed by death......I felt the same with my first wife. When she died, the emptiness was overwhelming and I didn’t think I could go on. My soul was empty and torn at her passing.”
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What do you mean by that ???
Sexually or to be with her as a friend etc ???
Do you think you will be with both women as your wives ???
Both sexually ??? or as friends ???
BTW Edward...
When you said to me ...
“Mormons believe men and women are equal. In fact, we believe women are naturally more righteous than men. This is why the Priesthood is given only to men since we need it in order to approach the spiritual level of women.”
Where does polygamy fit in for women ???
Do you think women will be equal in the mormon after life and have more than one husband ???
Does their superior righteousness allow for that privilege ???
If a woman has been a widow and remarried will she be with both husbands ???
I’m just checking to see how far the equality will go...
Here are more quotes about the subservience of women and women being property
“I say to those who are elected to go on missions, remember they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You under stand that. Amen” - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.256.
“Brethren, I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake.” - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30.
“BUT IT IS NOT THE PRIVILEGE OF A WOMAN TO DICTATE THE HUSBAND, AND TELL WHO OR HOW MANY HE SHALL TAKE, OR WHAT HE SHALL DO WITH THEM WHEN HE GETS THEM, BUT IT IS THE DUTY OF THE WOMAN TO SUBMIT CHEERFULLY... “
- Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; vol. 17; 159
“If I should undertake to drive a woman, I should have to drive her before me”
JoD 4: 15 Jedediah Grant
“When England and the rest of the nations learn war no more, instead of passing a law in this or any other nation against a man having more than one wife, they will pass a law to make men do as they should in honoring the daughters of Eve and making wives of and providing for them. Will not this be a happy time? Yes, very fine. If you will produce this to-day, I’ll tell you what I would be willing to do, I would be willing to give up half or two-thirds of my wives ... Do this and you are welcome to them. Would I get more wives? If I had a mind to.”
BY JD 12:255
Women are a possession like any other:
“It is also according to the acts of every legislative body throughout the Union, to enjoy all that you are capable of enjoying; but you are forbidden to infringe upon the rights, property, wife, or anything in the possession of your neighbor. “
BY JD 1:358
“Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands? Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? What!-my husband to be my lord? I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never go into the celestial kingdom (during the temple ceremony) without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p 291)
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, Nov. 1835
Wont you be so kind and so good as to take those pins or the india-rubber cords out of the back of the skirts of your dresses, so that you will look comely. They make you look uncomely, to see your dresses drawn around you, showing your form. Mothers ought to be ashamed of teaching their children such things.
- Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; vol. 19
“But when a man does his duty in providing for a family, there can reasonably be but little complaint on the part of any sensible woman.”
JoD 4:312
“If I should undertake to drive a woman, I should have to drive her before me”
JoD 4: 15 Jedediah Grant
“every ….. man’s wives to take a course to please their husband
JoD 4: 15
“Women were never placed to lead”
JoD 4: 15
“Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands? Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? What!-my husband to be my lord? I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never go into the celestial kingdom (during the temple ceremony) without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p 291)
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, Nov. 1835
“Women are queens and priestesses but not gods. The Godhead, the ‘Presidency of Heaven,’ is a presidency of three male deities, similar to a stake presidency whose members each have wives who are responsible for domestic religious education but not ecclesiastical functions.”
- Rodney Turner, retired BYU religion professor, Sunstone Panel Discussion, September 7, 1991.
“When England and the rest of the nations learn war no more, instead of passing a law in this or any other nation against a man having more than one wife, they will pass a law to make men do as they should in honoring the daughters of Eve and making wives of and providing for them. Will not this be a happy time? Yes, very fine. If you will produce this to-day, I’ll tell you what I would be willing to do, I would be willing to give up half or two-thirds of my wives ... Do this and you are welcome to them. Would I get more wives? If I had a mind to.”
BY JD 12:255
Women are a possession like any other:
“It is also according to the acts of every legislative body throughout the Union, to enjoy all that you are capable of enjoying; but you are forbidden to infringe upon the rights, property, wife, or anything in the possession of your neighbor. “
BY JD 1:358
Two simple questions mb
1. How could Jesus be a god in the OT since he had not yet followed all the ordinaces, works necessary while being a human? It seems he broke the eternal principles of eternal progression.
“You are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he; before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.…Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.… Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.”—Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 46:9 Jesus doesn't know of the existance of his father Elohim?
2. I am told by mormon missionaries that mormons worship only heavenly father - is worshiping Christ something new?
I’ll take door #2. :D
Prime example of what is being claimed NOT to exist posted for all to see.
These are sacred topics and we wish people would be more respectful of our faith.
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You mean the way the LDS are ‘respectful’ when their missionaries go door to door proclaiming we are all ‘not really Christians’ because of the universal apostasy?
Please, there is nothing sacred about Mormonism, silly yes, sacred no
Maybe the mormon gtod is getting ready to answer the “prophets” pleas to include women as worthy priesthood holders...
Just as the mormon god answered the pleas of the prophet in 1978 and decided that black men were no longer the scum of the earth but equal with white men...
Until 1978, mormons had taught that blacks were unworthy to God and unworthy of priesthood, and that they had the mark of Cain etc and were not valiant and were only good for servants and slaves..
Then the mormon god changed his mind...just in time to savew the mormon corporation from losing their tax exemption due to the Civil Rights Act of 1964..
as he had in 1890 with polygamy to save the mormon corporation from losing their land and belongings to the US government and to enable Utah to become a state...
Now you have to ask yourself...
What is it that the mormon corporation hopes to gain OR avoid losing that they would get so desparate as to elevate lowly females...
and then of course pretend that women were always EQUAL...
Curses Macaroni, the god of the Internet is too strong for the mormon god...
As well it should. A gnostic Jesus won’t save you, an islamic Jesus won’t save you etc. words mean things.
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