Replies

“If JS was “sacrificing” his life, why did he fight? Do you equate Jesus’ sacrifice with JS’s? IF so, why are they similar and how are they different?”

Um... he and his party were attacked by a mob. I suppose he was trying to protect himself and his friends. If a gang started shooting at you and you had a gun, would you shoot back?

No. Do you equate Stephen’s death, or Peter, or any other person who stood up for their beliefs and ended up dead because of it with Jesus’? Many people in history have lost their lives because they wouldn’t give up their beliefs. JS is one of them. But it doesn’t make any of them the Savior.

I would say the similarity between JS and Jesus would be that they both preached what they believed, and those who were angered by it, killed them.

The Savior and His infinite sacrifice for the sins of the world is unparalleled.

Of course why would a prisoner have a gun in jail if he was innocent...

I know, details details...

But there are others...

However a good myth is oft dragged down by facts...

I have a question, JS was in jail where did he get the gun to fight back?

In this statement you appear to equate Jesus and JS, is that what you meant?

I would say the similarity between JS and Jesus would be that they both preached what they believed, and those who were angered by it, killed them.

The Savior and His infinite sacrifice for the sins of the world is unparalleled.

Um... he and his party were attacked by a mob. I suppose he was trying to protect himself and his friends. If a gang started shooting at you and you had a gun, would you shoot back?

No. Do you equate Stephen’s death, or Peter, or any other person who stood up for their beliefs and ended up dead because of it with Jesus’? Many people in history have lost their lives because they wouldn’t give up their beliefs. JS is one of them. But it doesn’t make any of them the Savior.

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Ummm....BIG difference here. Martyrs BY DEFINITION do not defend themselves.

Stephen, Paul, and the others who gave their life for Christ DID NOT DEFEND THEMSELVES, they mimicked Christ’s response before Pilate.

I strongly suggest you read Foxes Book of the Martyrs before claiming Smith was one.

The Savior and His infinite sacrifice for the sins of the world is unparalleled.

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670